Yes but what generally makes them noobs just for towering? I say that in the sense that you said "noobs" that tower now, and the "pros that made towering competitive" I'm not asking about rewards because that's obvious, you do something and get a reward so you want to do it again and again for more rewards. That answers that. I am not asking about getting rewards I'm asking about generally referring to people that tower now as noobs and the "old-school" towerers that are the "pros"

Didn't thought that anyone on the forums would get that triggered cause I call people noobs, there are noobs(newbies) cause they don't know how hard towering could be/used to be and think that they're the best in the game now(since they are newbies)

I'm super triggered because you generally called a bunch of people I don't know noobs Absolutely.

You should group up D19 and give them a taste of the old towering ways!

Sounds like the "Competitive" players in this thread are sad that they don't get hats now, and are forced to go out into the rest of the game world and find other things to do than kill each other in one or two rooms to make any cash to get hats like the rest of us plebs...

theres no more competition lmao are you blind? All people you see are doing it out of BOREDOM. Pking is dead , Sparring is dead and some towers you see is held by noob guilds. I dont think thats competition.


Idk why people who dont tower,spar or pk always come here and say "its fine" but its not. I pked for 3 months straight and its been dead af . It used to be packed in mod or in towers back in the days.. This isnt about the hat rewards at all. I never hatchased 1k guilds unlike Agonee but right now it feels like its a ghost town. People who focus on socializing,bug catching or doing casual stuff isnt affected and wont even feel the emptiness of the competition right now. I joined some of these "newb guilds" that are towering and some of them arent even aware that rewards are gone..

Interesting how these ******s are talking about graals competitive aspects:
https://gyazo.com/3d9bd4bde86570b713d9c1778d699c52.png
https://gyazo.com/675a7e3130b69250bfb174935c18df86.png

The people posting in this thread such as david, thallen, agonee, zorma, bryan, mikva and myself all participated in sparring, towering and guild sparring ACTIVELY prior to incentives being removed.

If top tier players refusing to play the game as whole because of this main reason (and the guild system being incredibly slow) then there is a huge issue.

Look at these people, past towerers, sparrers and bkers who refuse to touch graal because the incentive just isn't there, its incredibly dumb how many people this has driven away.

(or they've grown bored of the lack of content)

I'm well aware not all of these are great examples.

https://gyazo.com/82ab4f08d41d14c94c6fdc9cf24a6b8f.png
https://gyazo.com/8cbe28789d614f88bc2904ee15b1a8bd.png
https://gyazo.com/5a03d827bb873e482a943fbe8052e953.png
https://gyazo.com/c64c3b7947a24424c05a782cf883d611.png
https://gyazo.com/715b781f88a9f45250b58e663abf5372.png
https://gyazo.com/9b7028c28766cf631daebd0facf9f73a.png
https://gyazo.com/c4772ec29365ab9b9bd04ac8cb86c010.png
https://gyazo.com/11de00f7ecaccf27e7e8bcee92d7672a.png
https://gyazo.com/d9db13858c5b5af2c86e02a183eb4855.png
https://gyazo.com/1a46cb0c5c6df54ed9014a7fd275fb83.png

4-lom, reemas, and lox, you guys need to sit down for a while and think. youre literally arguing against betterment of the game

Let me clarify from the few posts I've made on here, only once did I share my opinion on the state of the towering community, in that I agreed that the towering/community is dying, because it is, plain and clear.

Plus, thanks for sharing our stats Red! Because having the ability to talk about towering only comes with PK experience, even though towering at its core is quite basic. If I were sharing my opinion on the state of GST by all means have a go at me and say my opinion has no value, because it wouldn't as I've never been in it, but if having 9k pks suddenly makes me lack knowledge and have no value in regards to towering then hot damn, I'll shut right up.

Just adding, that my first point I made literally clarifies that, for me at least, I never said anything about arguing against any of that, I argued against points that individuals made yes, but as a whole no I didn't

I don't think it was meant to be mean, just to clarify that you don't have as much towering expierence than others, I think if he could he'd have posted your 1K hats to show off how many 1ks you done/deserved.

Oh absolutely, I was in 2 1k guilds and have 0 hats to show for either of them, so for sure.

It was more aimed at the bold

Really, I'm just trying to clear up as much as possible, in that I wasn't disagreeing with anyone, I wasn't really even responding to the topic as a whole, just individual comments made about it. That's all, I don't think I made that as clear on my end however

FP4 is the greatest update ninja ever, no petition or rage thread will ever tempt him to speak about his work

Thanks for your hard work anyway and take your time, your efforts will be greatly appreciated by me

Can't speak for anyone else though :D

Check your priviledge. Read what was bloody well said. Flamers like you guys defeat the purpose of the forums. Oh, and those are some cute numbers. Let's see you do this.

Attachment 23775

They think they're hot sh!t and superior to everyone else because they pvp. They are not interested in real debates and just have little else to do than pet their egos.

Attachment 23776

Couldn't help myself.

I'm sorry that you've a huge problem and can't think properly, as David mentioned earlier, PKers that PKs have a bigger influence on PKing than you, no one of us would come over to your Bug Catching/Competetive RP guide thread and start saying ******ed nonsense stuff and end up getting mental

There were, indeed, a few idiots who tried to derail the thread I generated regarding the daily bugs desired by the witch, making poo poo pee pee jokes (to use your unoriginal term, ******ed). However, you are not adressing the points that were made, instead choosing an ad-hominem argument which fails to tie in to the pk/bk/spar/tower thread. I was making a point relating to said thread. GG.

You´re either a troll or You really just don´t get it.
You catch bugs and others tower, spar or pk. You´re better at bug catching and looting and they´re better at their competitive aspects.
What is Your reason for bug catching and looting? For many it is the gralats, that´s their incentive.

Without incentive there would be no motivation to do any competitive things at all. People want things to brag about and stuff to show for their achievements, a reward for all the effort they put into whatever they were doing. If there is nothing to show for it, most players will just stop.

For example, if they took away or heavily nerfed the Gralat rewards You get from Bugs/Looting that many of the Players, who do these things, would complain and eventually stop doing these activities. Or imagine if You had no way to show us all of these bugs You caught and loot You retrieved, how would You feel?
Wouldn´t it suck to not be able to display Your achievement?

People don´t want to pet their egos. They want to Tower/Spar/PK and have fun on Graal (and maybe have their retired friends return as well).

I don´t know if a comparison like this has been made before, I skimmed through some of the posts in this thread but picture this:

Professional Football Players wouldn´t get paid anymore for competing in tournaments, thus they stop doing so. Now worse players, who previously had no chance in these tournaments, compete in these Tournaments and play (For Honour or some **** maybe). But it´s also a lot less, than when You would get $$$ for winning.
Now, a smaller group of people competes and from the perspective of someone who doesn´t know anything about Football at all it looks like it´s just fine. But those who played in those tournaments or spectated them know that it´s a dead scene. They know that the thing they once loved doing/watching is on a decline.

I don´t know if You just hate others and don´t want them to enjoy something, or if it´s some kind of personal grudge You have against Sparrers/BKers/PKers, but arguing against betterment of a game You play Yourself is stupid.

Also I made this many comparisons in this post to help You understand, because You don´t seem to.
Also sorry for this wall of text lol competitive communities are something i am passionate about

^^^this sums it all up^^^

I used to tower quite a bit, but with the major decrease in activity, and decrease in any incentive, I just can't have fun doing it anymore. Guilds used to rival each other for hours over a tower, and it was great. The competition, whether it was for hats or not, was very cool.

With the hat-chasers around to cause most of the competition, along with the occasional pkers looking for some kills, there was always something going on at each tower.

Nowadays, I'm only seeing the weak guilds taking towers, which is lame. Occasionally, I'll see older guilds taking the towers simply for fun, which is great.

As for pking, I just kill random people for fun. I can't even boost if I don't care about how many kills I get, I simply like going around and pissing people off as they go by on their mounts. There's a huge stigma on pk boosting. Pking, for me at least, is just something else to do. I have fun just walking around every pk area in graal and just killing randoms. Surely that can be better than sitting in one place pking.

Spar is a different story. Occasionally, I'll see some booster or hacker in any room, which is never cool. Boosting or hacking has really increased over the last year or so, and it really sucks for many of the newer players, or every player in general, who spars for fun or competitively. I simply like to run into the main rooms and try and just destroy some of the streakers. Sometimes I'm successful and am able to completely crush the people that have been streaking a lot, or I simply might get my ass completely handed to me.

But, when we have some kind of booster or hacker of any sort, or some major delayer, it really dampers the experience. If there is some person from south america or the eastern hemisphere dominating the streak rooms, I don't even bother. I want to be able to have fun sparring, but it can feel like a chore sometimes.

I understand very well. I just don't take people misrepresenting their stance or being fusspots for no reason very well. The majority of the posts here are from angry young kids who don't quite know how to express themselves, not mature people having a discussion about a solution which is what the forum is for, no?

Much appreciated that you seem to care, but you, again, like a lot of the folks jumping on my case for being from a different demographic in the game, didn't read what I said and made assumptions... This was the specific blow by blow I made earlier...

1.) There are sparrers, pkers, tower guilds currently operating
2.) Towers are occupied with players who WANT to tower, and not just hat chasers
3.) Spar tournaments happen multiple times a year
4.) Other areas of the game do not have the same focus or attention
5.) Guild system has been a long time coming, but some areas of the game (which may be valid to you or not) that are enjoyed by many players are neglected
6.) I look forward to a guild system update that harmonizes the blatantly skewed leaderboard system and the non-competitive forms of gameplay into a singular group activity with incentives for all.

Did you not read my post about loot/bug catching being debuff, archery being a 2-man queue to compete for a high score that doesn't change once you hit 9800, for a town that only exists because new content arrives, and the plague of hackers that are coming because the security system of Graal in itself is easily manipulative. I asked Dusty twice if he's able to do something about it such as auto-disconnecting players if they enable a speed hack or enter into "God Mode", but nothing. How it is possible Roblox has much success than Graal when it comes to dealing with cheaters is mind boggling.

Towering
In my opinion, towering died back in 2014-2015. Ever since the use of alliances/truces, it's been killing its competitive aspect. I don't even know what's the use of "allies" when it's only used as a sub guild to hold the main guild. The removal of the old system and announcing the new system was definitely mishandled. Majority of the players "not just the pkers/sparrers" were expecting the new system out in June 2016 since the news stated the old system was being removed in May 25 around there. Huge disappointment with the handling of such vital information to the community.

PK/BK
Players that enjoy Bking are striving with the expansion of new areas and baddies so there's no issue with that. Pking has died down since there are less players towering (see the connection). The only good things that have been added for Pking are limiting players from rioting and trying to make them PK at forts but again if they aren't that many towering, you barely scratching the surface.


Spar
There are plenty of suggestions that can be implemented to improve this section of the game. I think having rooms like the one GST Viewing Section can reduce the wait time to spar. Meaning far more matches can be done simultaneously. I also think the required online time to spar should increase to at least 50-100 hours to reduce potential hackers. If you increase the required time to spar, it might prevent them from waiting out several days just to annoy or disrupt the gameplay of others. There's a War Room in the Arena that doesn't even get any activity. I was thinking a 10v10 match with the environment changing to ice, grass, lava, etc in the War Room.


Overall
The game needs changes in every aspect of the game since there all connected to each other. Whether it'd be single or group related.

Cheers, man. That's discussion. Must spread rep :/

Isn´t a forum is mainly for discussion and sharing thoughts, though?
That´s what most of this is on here.
I only Guild Spar, so I don´t really associate with PK/Towering and neither with Single Spar.
Anyways..

1. &2.) Look at the Football Comparison I made in my previous post.
3.) Indeed, I haven´t mentioned that, don´t think that Guild Spar was the main focus in this thread
4.) That´s true and it´s sad. iClassic still needs a lot of work, just because some communities are more vocal about their disliking of the current situation doesn´t mean that other areas of the game don´t need work.
5.) Maybe the NGS (if it´s even going to happen) fixes that as well?
Or it would be the focus after the NGS is released.
6.) Me too, buddy

I agree.. though I've been playing mostly for the social aspect, I do wish there were a bit more things to do.

So what exactly is the major consensus on what the update actually is? Towering currently consist of opposing guilds vying for the flag, which in the past was made much more competitive due to the 1k hour hat prize. A guild is made up of a max of 25 players, each able to ally with up to 5 other guilds. Each player can also be tagged with up to 5 different guilds. What is going to change?

I don't know why you keep repeating this. There's probably 1/5th the number of towerers as there were in 2014-2015. It's probably the same fraction of PKers. "Some people do it so it's in good shape." Bulletproof logic.
I don't know why you keep repeating this either. "There are 50 people who are towering with no rewards compared to the hundreds that towered with rewards, so everything is fine." What? You're not even making sense. What does their motive even have to do with anything? Why are you using phrases like "hat chasers" which have zero relevance to the discussion of how inactive the towers are?
There are four of these per year… Again, you're changing the topic from the guild system to things you're bad at. No one is asking for spar tournaments. Why are you so narrowly mad at the idea of sparring? Are you aware this thread is about a guild system? Go to any GST thread and look at this guy's posts. He literally comes to threads like these and concern trolls just because he's bitter towards sparrers. It's bizarre to me.
You suggested a fashion content earlier. I don't think you understand that the majority of players want something that is a non-temporary solution to incentivize all elements of gameplay. That's what the guild system is.
I don't think you know anything about the guild system. Maybe you aren't aware that players have been pushing to have things like bug catching and gralat farming incentivized with points.
That's strange considering the majority of your posts in threads regarding it seem like attempts to derail and shift focus towards other things.

here to say great job to the people encouraging new guild system and also i've read some of Reemas responses to these claims and i've never seen someone so stupid talk crap in these forums. Reemas you're getting roasted by everyone just leave go back to burger refugee roleplay, standing in BA all day and socialize with such garbage spar community or just try to make yourself feel better by joining one of those noob elite guilds like zanza omnes or idk there's a new one of those everyday. u can cry all u want but i'm not gonna reply cause i know how these type of kids go with their reasoning. i'm out

You're putting words in my mouth, hm? Misrepresenting my argument, here. I'm saying that there are people towering, not that it's at peak performance.

What other systems/behaviors in the game had such specific rewards? I think that tower (and spar, to some extent) have gotten special treatment in a game that is, in a decent cross section, split between people who partake of these activities and people who don't. And that's just fine. You don't see bug catchers asking for hats, though.

Your tense shifts here, so it's confusing to read, but I think you're calling me a no account troll? I generally read everything in the classic subsection, here. I choose not to comment when I don't have an opinion, but, like was previously mentioned in an above statement, conversation is what the forum is for. If you have a problem, there are moderators and various account options relating to your preferences as to whose posts you see or not, as I'm sure you're aware.

Tldr: I'm not bitter towards sparrers, I just don't back down when ignorant people call me names for no apparent reason other than not having a logical argument.

Put it to a vote. I bet you'd be surprised how many people would be interested in 'fashion content.' If you're talking about people who partake in other aspects of gameplay, there are tons of different ways that people choose to spend their time in this game (look at those military guys...). Official systems that benefit all play styles are definitely the need of the hour.

Like I said, I read almost everything in the Classic subsection. I mentioned exactly this indirectly in the following comment I had made (Looking forward to a unifying guild system).

Note I didn't insult you once, even though my opinion may differ from yours.

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/...a-17-08-56.png
So these are all the guild that have a tower atm.

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/...a-17-08-32.png

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/...a-17-08-52.png

And these are the leaders of "LIONS LAW" and "SHIROKURO".

Sure they will always be people towering on Graal, but when you come to competitiveness on towering, you can't say it exists.

(@Reemas/4-Lom)

If it gets 100,000 signatures the English government will have to consider it.

Move on bro. You're stuck in the past.

^^^sums it up^^^

Great! Glad to see they made room for others.

I could use a better mint. Got any suggestions?

congrats to the thread poster. you realized, just like thousands of other players, that the game is unbelievably ****ty right now. you also probably realized that whenever the admins do decide to bring the new guild system, (or cheap out and just give back rewards, abandoning the guild system) it'll be an even bigger disappointment. a thread on the unofficial graal forum won't change anything, because everyone else is still going to buy gralat packs and the 100k crappy 2p mounts.

your dedication is admirable, but like most of us, you'll eventually learn that as a player, there's no hope in fighting for change.

It's people like Reemas, 4-Lom, and Lox (very unskilled and untalented players overall, I might add) who are the reason why little league teams are given participation awards instead of actual trophies for their accomplishments. The type of people who aren't very successful and refuse to strive for success, so they argue against the very idea of competition. U SUK KID UR BAD LOL

It's crybabies like you that get triggered by people like us.

Graal is defiantly going to the wrong turn, not exactly know how u don't see it. Like I've made 30-100wins a day for the last 300days maybe? I can see a wrong turn in that
Pkin just became useless once riots happened. I'm glad that isn't a thing anymore but tons of players hit 100k with 0 skill. Ive pked the last 7days, its really just full of Brazilians anytime I do pk. Sure there's players that still do but compare the 2017 pkers to the 2012 pkers. Big difference.

Please quote me on anything I said that in anyways sticks out to you where I said anything relating to me wanting to ruin the game, then I can actually pay attentiom to that ****e that just came from you.

Adding that, everything I said was related to individuals and what they said, not a topic as a whole, thanks for misinterpreting that

Jesus, i've been reading everything up. It goes down to simply people complaining and insulting people who do not take part on those aspects of the game, but want to fond a way to solve the ruckus on. If you "competitive" players just keep insulting us, people who try to find solutions for YOUR problems we (i agree) aren't even supposed to care about, how do you want this game to improve? You've indirectly and directly mentioned how influenced/dependant those activities are to the playerbase. So, instead of arguing with us, complaining or drowning in nostalgia, don't you make people come and play with you? There's no rewards? There's boosters? Then make yourself farm rewards! And make special sparring matches in your house with the new boobytraps from castle, go and show those "noob guilds" what you like about your respective aspect of the game, teach them so they can teach others, so they motivate others, the game may be on a bad moment for you guys,but you aren't trying to redeem it neither, so, how are you supposed to change ANYTHING if you aren't even trying? Instead, you spend your time spamming forums with nostalgia and mentioning your problems while also taking on people, how COULD that change anything? So i simply suggest you to try to revive them, if you tried, do so again! You'll Win more with that than complaining.

Excuse me if i have bad grammar or typos, english is not my maternal languague. Hope you find a way to solve this!

your opinion literally has 0 value

4-lom you posted pics of your bug collection in a thread for pk/spar/bk and pretty much said that gave you an opinion. Take the L.

I feel burger refuge roleplay is more suited to you just stick to that and maybe you wouldn't give me a headache everytime you posted.

So far this post has been a bunch of people complaining about how good towering and pking USED to be, if you're sick of how bad it's gotten, move on and find a different game that suits your needs, if not, quit complaining and move forward, not backwards.

So far the only person who has suggested any way of moving forward is Jose, so get some panadol for your headache, and quit whinging about how good it used to be, get over it or move on.

Maybe its a sign telling you to go outside a bit more.

Its not like it takes a long time to make that many wins

That is just a dumb problematic response.

You are saying "if your sick about how **** the game has got move on" but moving on is the problem?? People are complaining towering is empty and no one is active because people have been moving on, using "move on" as a alternative to the graal competitive side dying, its just ironic and i have no idea if your just a troll, or actually ******ed.

good arguments

Apparently, the answer to everything is you're either a troll or just ******ed. One way to beat around the bush because you dont really have an answer or can't accept an answer.

...
 

Did you even read it?

Maybe if you understood that:

1. 1/8 of the tower population (1/8 is a generous fraction) is towering, which is ****ing awful.
   
2. Sparring is plagued with hackers/boosters and vpners/force laggers. Has no reward and is literally dead at this point.
   
3. PKing is the exact same, towers being dead basically means everybody PK's at mod or boosts off of noobs in 100/200 hour zones.
   
4. BKing is terribly boring and needs an incentive, pyrat is dead (was easy and quick way to gain gralats and bks) I understand castle has bounties but they're incredibly stupid (the box thing sucks)
   
5. Guild sparring is dead until gst even then its not the same as it once was, This activity is something that is sad to see being so dead and inactive.
   
6. Towering is basically the same as it was a year ago, (which is pretty much a huge **** up on fp4 and dustys part) removing rewards a YEAR before a new guild system is released is incredibly dumb, I don't see any reason to remove an incentive a YEAR before any sort of update to guilds is made.
   
7. 5 Guild Limit is ****ing stupid, I get it was for a reason but this killed guilds. I had to leave Apostles, WAR and Rampage just so I could do what I do with the current guilds.
   
   

If you really believe there is no ****ing issue with the current way guilds and reward incentives operate you obviously are extremely ignorant or a mini version of 4lom who believes their unneeded troll attempt is funny or even creative.

Lox, 4lom, reemas and yourself and anyone else who believes that spar and pk get any special treatment are stupid and should stop posting here.

4lom himself should of been banned from commenting inside any thread that relates to anything competitive like a year ago, this ******ed roleplaying kid actually thinks his bug museum means something. Take the L and stay inside burger refuge or advertising your code shop outside graal city!!


tldr; Stop acting like you have any idea what you're talking about.(lox, 4lom, reemas, this jose random) the "nostalgia" we are supposedly dwelling on is literally a direct result of a dysfunctional and terrible staff team and people like you who actually think their opinion holds any weight over the other people inside this thread.

PKing, towering, sparring are dying and are not a fraction of what they used to be. This is a problem that needs to be fixed.

If you disagree with these sentences then just shut up, because you're either (I'll say it again):
new to graal
or
dumb

/thread

Insults aside, you just proved my point. Do you think we're stupid? We know the problems, in fact as 4-lom (who by the way is already an adult.) Has said, this thread was supposed to make solutions for the problem rather than becoming one of those worn out rant posts. It's ridiculous how you guys ditch every suggestion and say we do not matter just because we don't do those activities. The last i want to do is to argue, or to insult a whole group because of it's terrible representation at forums. You are all acting like the guy who claimed no one was worthy if that person wasn't a top sparrer. Just wanted to make solutions rather than getting sucked in your insult list. PD: i hate codeshops.

Yet when we make a suggestion it's "it's unfair on everyone else"

I never said you didn't have an opinion but I did say your opinion holds less weight then somebody who frequently participates in these activities or is regarded as top tier in their field

What i wanted to say is, that those people who "hold weight" do not try to solve the problem, instead, they rant. And about the "unfair" part, depends, USA-CANADA room? That excludes many players, so it is unfair. But i hadn't seen any suggestions on this post, correct me if i'm wrong

Ok firstly, you can't make anyone come and play with you. Large majority of player base in competitive play want incentives, and unfortunately, there are next to zero incentives right now in towering or pking other than "being with friends" who generally aren't going to be doing said activities with you due to the previously stated fact.

Secondly, how are the people who commented in this thread thus far not trying to change anything? Why do you think they even replied? It's called taking complaints so that issues are addressed by those who can do something about it.

And don't hit people up with the "move on to another game" excuse when people want this game to be fixed, not to delete it. For example, if one champ was incredibly overpowered on a game, who in their right mind would tell someone complaining about it to play a different game?

how are they going to solve the problem when they don't have the power to do so? Ranting is an effective way to get the attention the developers who can solve the problem.
Yes there were some suggestions on this post. One guy said they should have raised hat rewards to 3k hours. Pretty sure there were more but I can't be bothered to re-read the thread.

How can we solve problems with 2 dev's working on the server with limited tools and broken scripts.

No suggestions we post here are ever considered tbh

USA-CANADA thread?
anyone who spars and knows whats good for sparring disagrees with that.