I know that Thallen, I pretty much thought that it would solve the issues with leaderboards that people have been having with it. It seems like a good solution to me, people that want to boost can continue to do so, but they probably won't be on the leaderboard anymore. I really can't think of any solution for boosting right now, except constantly having to warp them to unstick me locations when they've gotten too many kills in x amount of time. I feel like that might discourage PKing all together, so that might be a bad idea. I'm sure there's a good solution though.

Now we're getting somewhere. ;)

So why does it matter if Player killing in towers count towards seasonal and outside towers doesn't .

That's empowering towering a lot... Assuming guilds are getting points for towering and PKs, that basically makes it so that every single guild in the game should want to tower instead of anything else, because you're (1) getting guild points for holding a tower, (2) getting guild points for PKing, and (3) getting individual seasonal rewards for the PKs you've earned while doing that

So, to me, if they did that it's kind of like saying "every guild in the game should be a tower guild and nothing else" in terms of efficiency/rewards

That won't work, they'll bring the mob to mods door. They've done it before.

could make it so there's a certain amount off kills you can get in a certain area so they have to move and make a time limit to when they can come back and pk there.

I agree they should have no overworld pking and just have certain areas such as the war room and stuff. (Since the war room is not used at all almost this would be a perfect opportunity to get its visits way up!)

I completely agree with Thallen on this one. If you think they're getting 1k kills an hour, go ahead and join them. Earlier today I saw them all get warped and then a huge group just ran back to Swamptown and continued. A year or two ago there used to be a mob at the MoD Tower doors all the time. And for sure, it can be a form of boosting, but if it were, admins would basically reset everyone kills stats at the mob if everyone was boosting.

but they are getting 1K kills an hour. should all athletes use drugs if russian athletes do? people here are saying it's a low way to get stats, especially when it also gets them on the leadboards. if they felt like it's an okay way to PK, they would join them, but instead they are posting their displease about the current situation. and in the end, isn't it boosting? sure, it's a mass, and they aren't using autoclicker or anything, but they are getting an "unfair" amount of kills. look at ladybugs, as soon as people got unfair amounts of them their price got nerfed. also, admins wouldn't reset the kills of everyone in the mob.. don't be ridicilous, it's hard enough warping them all out if they come back there 24/7.

I don't know, this morning, the top PKer only had around 1k kills, now he's almost at 5k..

http://i.imgur.com/zc2Xiik.png

I haven't slept that's why

About the situation of equality, I know tower PKers would think this is a bull****, but if it's unfair, make it equal by doing it. I put your reference of the athlete comparison in to match my statement. Make it equal by doing the same as others if you think it's unfair. Your opinion on PKing isn't going to affect others and yet no one has said PKing has to involve skill or kdr.

(P.S. wanderer didn't I see you PKing in a riot not too long ago??)

that's not how you solve problems. anyone who is doing something as a hobby or competitively has every right to complain about people having unfair advantages, as they are forced to either PK towers, which basically removed their chances of entering the season leadboards or join in the mobs which is not something they want to do because it's low, at least in their view. besides, a lot of other arguments were made against the mobs such as them causing lag, making it annoying to get in and out of swamptown and covering a large portion of the area where dragonflies spawn. there's a difference between an activity involving no skills and an activity being broken.

If people are so eager to catch dragonflies, just catch them in the southwest portion of Swamptown. The riot is very jam-packed, so it doesn't really cause any lag, at least for me. Also, they aren't forced to PK towers, tower PKing is not the overall method of gaining PKs. Maybe us graalians discovered a new and faster way of gaining PKs and thus leave behind the concept of tower PKing.

PKing ≠ towering

they're entirely different activities.

100% agree.

Also, this can be an analogy to religion. Tower PKers believe in the concept of using skill and attacking towers to gain their PKs. Mob PKers believe in the concept of PKing in large amounts to gain their kills faster without much required skill. (Sorry, that analogy was stupid and lame.) But, there is nothing in the "Graal Classic Rule Book" that differentiates PKing in large mobs from tower PKers. We have evolved from the generic concept of PKing in towers and upgraded.

For pking, I think points should be based off of how many kills you can get, before you die.
(1st kill) If 1 kill, before death = 1
(2nd kill) Then the next kill is 3 x more = 3
(3rd kill) Next is 2x more = 9
(4th kill) 9 x 3 = 27
(5th kill) 27 x 3 = 81
(6th kill) 81 x 3

Rules

1. They have to get each kill in less than 10 seconds, otherwise you start back at 1 point. (So you won't run away, and camp)

2. Your rule from the quote. (Mob pking punishment)

3. Killing guild members and allies reduces points :)

This way, it rewards people for skill, and not just grinding and spamming sword.

i love his idea but i don't think it would work very well lol.

Was adding more rules. His (Dusty) or this?
Not really sure what other rules should be added to prevent people from boosting points.

Maybe, if you can't gain points from killing the same person, after 30 seconds? Idk.

Filter for Fort kills and outside fort kills maybe? To be honest though even the you killed this guy 10times in few minutes so lets deduct some points that wouldn't work at all as person killing in flag room likely to do same on same players there just abit slower, for that reason I'd hardly see as boosting(letting them kill for kills-not actually pk mobs case) they just smarter to go and gather in a group and pk

does having a seasonal leadboard and prizes for an activity that became easier than looting seem normal to anyone at all?

The only activity out of the three that takes skill is sparring. You either no life BK or Mob PK. Deduct a kill for deaths only on seasonal, it will reduce mob pking.

As a tower pker, I pk with skill, and for fun. I have no interest in sitting pressing the sword for four hours. You all can go ahead, I don't care very much. I pk because I enjoy it, but I also pk because I want to be skilled at combat. That's the main difference for me. When I face a mob pker, I can tell. The basic difference between a tower pker and a mob pker is that one of us is looking to gain skill, and the other is looking to gain kills.

i've looked into systems that could "fix" mob pking. But ultimately it isn't my place to judge what is a problem and what is not. The developers will be the ones who decide if mob Pking is legitimate or not.

I hope this idea is self explanatory because I'm really lazy to explain/write it down btw this doesn't have to do anything with the points.












Also donate bc 4K from last season wasn't enough sorry.....

I see what you're saying, PKing with skill can help you take down tower defenders fast and take towers. Mob PKers just want kills to make their stats look good.

..... .... .....

It wouldn't matter so much if tower Pkers or long term pkers actually had something to pk for. Seasonal is out the window cuz its impossible if you pk a tower or go to school/work. Stats gets boring when people I can flaw are overtaking me and there's less people at towers now. If your mindset is "players are just finding easier ways to pk" then why have they stopped Bush pking , and back in the day people boosted at the police station on the little bridge exactly the same way and got reset.
Admins just let this go on too long and now it's just accepted and they won't do anything about it. We wouldn't complain if there was still an all time.
Its not competitive or skill based at all yet a statue goes to #1 and all the old and present real pkers aren't recognized. Add a pk zone already with respawns. That would be way more fun anyways and anyone who wouldn't prefer that is clearly just doing it to stay on leaderboards because it's easy.

Don't see why they can't implement something to suit everyone , poor show by admins , if it was spar it would probably be changed

Bahahahahahah, come on he's got a point.

Yeah admins, why don't you push that button that magically fixes problems with solutions that no one is sure will even fix stuff.

>:( Poor show

I'm pretty sure they could find ways to fix it , all I'm saying is there's a lot of suggestions and pk zones have been suggested for ages but nothing happens

Whatever system you use, people are going to try to engage in whatever behaviors the system allows that contributes to improving their stats.

You can change the system. E.g. I suggested respawning at the same HP upon suicide to discourage people from suiciding in an anti-social fit when they're at a certain AP threshold. I suppose you could respawn people in different places if they die in a mob (maybe a very large morgue where the staff are freaking out about a zombie apocalypse?)

You can also change the stats and players behaviors will start optimizing for the new stat instead of the old one. E.g. if you factor in deaths as a negative, people will try to minimize their deaths while maximizing their kills instead of simply trying to maximize their kills.

So change the oh-so-holy system or change the oh-so-holy stats.

Maybe those suggestions suck

No. For the last time. Don't add deaths to stats. People don't just pk... Would also take up too much space when you have 100,000+ deaths.

All they have to do is make people who die, spawn at random areas near the area where they died. Prevents mobs.

Pk zones? Isn't that what towers are for?
If you add a dedicated area for pking, then people will just boost there... it won't remove mobs. It'll just make it easier for them to gather around there.

Lost quote; but someone said something about there not being a reasonable and fair way to stop/discourage mob pking
>As it's been discussed before, warping players to an unstick point or other indoor location after dying on the overworld would be effective.

In a mob, theoretically, everyone should average out at 1 kill per death (because statistics). So using deaths as part of a score would hurt mob pking. It doesnt necessarily have to be a flat +1/-1.

Yet I still dont understand why people care about having idle stats on their profile. The total scoreboards no longer exist; unless they see the seasonal boards as a comparable recognition.

To extend your hyperbole, I suppose chat text should be limited to 7 characters because it takes up too much space.

So you like the change the system approach.

You're entirely correct in this regard.

Love this!! That's perfect!! Do it!

not when I shoot 200 arrows through it

Respawn players at random points around graal. Make em all really work for their kills.

You can't spam arrows anymore though.

was the day change for leaderboards pushed forward a hour or 2 ?......

unless in a tower, this seems like a nice idea.

Last time I mentioned respawns everyone lost their **** and said it was the worst thing ever, but now that there's leaderboards though... Anyways, random respawn locations would be infuriating as a player. Yeah, if you're just mob-PKing it discourages you from going back but if you're just another player who was in the middle of something like baddy-killing or going to a shop it's going to be annoying. I can hear the players already having an aneurysm and screaming losing their voice as they whine about the misfortune of dying while fighting the giant blob.

There was a respawn system being worked on a while ago and it used doors to houses as a way to find the nearest safe respawn for you. We of course know that isn't really a resolution though since you could just keep respawning in the same house so we could also implement a random warp after x amount of deaths.

how do you shoot arrows through a mob that doesn't exist?(since being in the mob would be worthless, since as a regular sword-swinger you wouldn't be gaining anything.)

Like being in 1066 fighting.. all for the lets make so its like spar and promote it as less lag-that we get anyway..stamina killed chaos combat(that was actually fun-Now its all slow/player warps here)

Maybe add a VIP special effect where players that are baddy killing dont get warped?

As for the blob, isnt there a way to make a radius around it so players dont get warped when killed by another player? (VIP related as well)

Please don't turn into Era. This is not a good idea. It would be really annoying to spawn on the other side of the map from where you were trying to go.

I feel that this could make a good topic for a new thread. Maybe with a vote to see what percentage of people might be up for it. I know that I would be fine with it

I agree that it would be annoying. If you changed the respawn system in a way that prevented this it would be wicked annoying as you'd just as likely end up somewhere further from wherever you want to be.

Then there's the whole stats thing. The kills-to-deaths ratio is the first thing to pop into mind, but that doesn't measure magnitude very well. If you're 1-0 in PKing, you have the highest possible kills-to-deaths ratio. Ratios also promote selection bias which is bad for gameplay.

What would be more appropriate if you want to promote healthy PKing gameplay would be a kills-to-deaths margin, i.e. the number of kills minus the number of deaths. Players would have to find a balance of quantity and skill in order to maximize the returns. If there's any reason to require the stats to be summative, points could be representative of the maximum kills-to-deaths margin a player has obtained.

If using a particular statistic promotes a style of gameplay that more people enjoy, there's a clear benefit to using that statistic over one that does not.

you guys really want to ruin iClassic over this
organized, "skilled" PKing is called sparring or GSing, some of you should try it

it's bad enough we can't even use items while PKing without being throttled
can't shoot arrows through walls anymore
now we want to control where and how people PK because a group doesn't want to do what they're doing

to what extent are we going to take this
maybe eventually you'll just have to queue for PK and you'll only be able to use swords

I'm not particularly fond of going to spar just to get a pk fix.

I don't see the big deal. If you prefer to PK at mobs to get more pks on ur stats, then do it. If your a complainer who is butt hurt about people getting more pks then u at a tower, kys