Friendly-fire should not be considered a valid reason to raise your PK Stats. If they arrow or bomb someone on 0.5 (the person will indeed die BUT it won't count as a kill).

Not a fan of the killing guildmates either...idk seems cheap. I can definitely see why you do it though. I don't think people holding sards should be able to kill themselves on spikes though. I think bows/bombs could be disabled in towers and that could be a reasonable solution instead of 'last person to hit gets the kill' if this ever happened. I know some people will say this is part of strategy .etc, but I doubt it would change too much from happening/changing tower wise tbh.

Hmm... Would be useful... But, I do like taunting people that run away at 0.5 in Swamp Tower...

And that's why I said it's a better system, assuming it's tied to AP, to respawn a player at the same health in the case of a death where no one gets a kill. Suicides and TKing for the sake of annoying other players is antisocial.

Also keep in mind that having someone sit off-tag to collect kills is against Graal's TOS and will result in a ban.

I repeat, suicides and TKing for the sake of annoying other players is antisocial. It literally makes the game less fun.

Maybe you should just consider the fact that you suck at towering Sardon's if you found yourself stuck in a death loop there.

You really can't imagine how annoying it would be to try to attack Sardon's? Make it past the first room with only 0.5, spike hits you and you go all the way back to start with only 0.5

There's no need to make that tower unbalanced again

Also, as for suicides and TKing being annoying, I don't see the issue. You realize that pkers are annoying the towering guilds in the first place by pking them? They pose no real threat to the flag, yet the guilds are still forced to deal with them. They have every right to try to get them to leave.

Just gonna boost 0.5 kills at tower, after the attackers put in 5 hits.

Who cares if it's ultimately making less people pk at them?
The easier the 1k, the better.

Classic: selling suicide vests! 100 gralats each! Kill yourself at .5 health with the click of a button!

Go kamikaze on everyone.

isis!

You could make it so the respawn position of the flag-holding guild is below the spike room, which would effectively make the spike room a bottleneck for all guilds. You could make it so the spikes have to be triggered by players in order for them to attack and do any damage, which would make someone worthy to assign a kill (or tk); heck, you can make it require 0.5 hearts to even use the spikes as an attack method. You can increase the size of the spike room to make it easier to avoid the spikes. It's not like changing the AP system to incorporate suicides can't be accompanied by other minor changes.

If the other player disconnects at 0.5 in a spar match, should you get the win?

But

not everyone does it just to annoy people. Some people do it so they can quickly get back to full strength. What if mod is taken and I'm left at 0.5, do I have to go in and beg someone to kill me? Some of us take pride in not dying easily or often, so that seems lame to me. Besides that There would be a big devaluation of the death stat.

so much on this game creates the same "antisocial" environment. Stealing Gralats is antisocial, yet people aren't searching for a fix(yet).
How will they monitor for that?
What about those who don't do it to annoy other players? What if I'm a farmer who doesn't want to lose my bombs?

Would you like me to throw back in your face "maybe If you can't kill a suicider then you just should consider the fact that you suck at pking"? Probably not.

But for a real argument, this update is mostly for the newbies who can't get suiciders easily. Do you realize that they do suck at Sards, so that indeed will be a problem for them? Noobs could and would get in death spirals at Sards because of this.

All I see this doing is making Pking more annoying at certain places.

All antisocial aspects of the game should be addressed at some point. There's matters of priority, but I'm responding to this thread and not a thread about a different issue in gameplay.

Computers are exceptional counting machines. Record sets of events that meet an weighted set of criteria (e.g. off-tag guild member kills on-tag guild member), provide a threshold (e.g. 5 times per minute), and report any activity exceeding that threshold for review. I will yield that these systems require statistical analysis in order to minimize false-negatives and false-positives.

That's why I suggested a tie-in to AP. Farmers don't generally have low AP.

Maybe if you can't kill a suicider, the suicider is being antisocial, and the community deserves better.

Everyone starts somewhere, and newbies are more likely to be turned off by antisocial behavior than level of difficulty.

And I see this making PKing less annoying at certain places. If it wasn't annoying, nobody would have posted a thread about it.

You can still run all your strats.
Just that the pker gets the kill, not you, your guildmates, or spikes.

What is so hard to understand, that you can suicide, but the kill goes to the pker who registered the last hit.

Bombs are worth 15g... if you are a farmer, you should have enough money to buy more.

Why make excuses, when there is no need? Pker should get the kill. People mostly suicide, at least against me, just so I won't pk them 24/7.

If a player disconnects during a spar at 3 HP you should get the win. If it doesn't work that way, the server is stupid.

Disconnecting is a forfeit in spar. So far this thread has spawned three arguments in regard to suicide/accidental-self-kill which includes the forfeit argument. Should suicide/accidental-self-kill be considered a forfeit in PKing (someone gets a kill)? A dumb-move/anti-strategy (respawn at previous health given AP threshold)? Or should it remain as a legitimate strategy (albeit particularly antisocial in most contexts)?

If Player 1 kills Player 2 too many times without Player 2 killing Player 1, a message can been sent to the server that can be seen by staff members using the Graal Remote Control.

Think that would probably be easier to address, but yeah, let's keep it relevant.
They could have them wear a different guild tag. Or if you meant any member not on that tag, what if it's a noob guild and it's a very good pker, who can kill them all very fast? I've seen people get over 10-20 kills a minute. The point im making is that it would be very difficult to actually tell who is kill collecting and who is not.
That's true, but with the blob being in swamp, a lot of them now have lowish(10-40)AP.
I haven't really said this before, but I really don't know why it being antisocial matters all that much. Pking isn't a predominantly social activity, in its purest form.
If you're sure, that's all a matter of perspective.
Where will it make pking less annoying?



But player 2 will still kill player 1, when his HP is low enough and he doesn't want to be killed by the pker/attacker.

My other concern is still the how quickly you would rack up deaths at destiny and sards, since getting killed by the spikes is still relatively easy.

I feel like someone managing to kill himself at 0.5 is a skill part of pking i wouldnt remove or try to fix it personally.

it's not even a big deal...

Id only say remove teammates getting the kill on you with arrows or bombs so it's only used as a tower technique to make sure your members are always on full hp. You shouldn't be given the kill for something you didn't even do.

When I pk (barely) it's usually towards a goal, if someone suicides then it just backfires onto them since I'll just be pking longer until I get my goal. Pkers should have that mindset coming into a tower to pk, or just plain and simple - get good?

I think bombs and arrows should hit teammates... Otherwise they could just arrow a side of the flag where attackers and defenders are hitting it, and it will knock all the attackers off, while leaving their teammates there to continue hitting it. I don't see the problem with suiciding... I mean people get hundreds of PKs each day, is 1 person suiciding really a big deal? If you can't get them when it counts, you shouldn't get the kill.

Arrows that are able to affect your enemies, including other players, baddies but not your own team mates? What are they made of pure steel?

I never said they won't hit your teammates....I just said you wouldn't get the kill for it

But they do get the kill.. Seems pointless to not give them the kill. That's not solving any problem, it's just making people less mad when others do it. It's really a pointless thing to do.

Because friendly-fire is a valid reason to boost my PK stats.

How is that boosting? It's getting a kill. If people want to boost, it's much easier if they're in diff. guilds.

i don't like friendly fires. when i was noob, i was in this admin guild and there was a lead (who later he became GP) he attacked vulnerable underlings for his own sake. he arrowed mostly .5 ppl (if tower was quiet, .5-1.5) and no exception during the combat?? so i got pissed one day and attacked him back, then he kicks me out. lmao.
later the leader recruited me back, but this guy didn't stop for a quite awhile.

1 pker attacks. I get 1 kill. I have 15 members on 0.5, I get 15 kills.

PKers and sparrers are extremely pretentious when it comes to making suggestions... Massokre is the only person ITT that approached it from a gameplay perspective, suggesting it promotes "antisocial" behavior and how that might be negative for the game... Even then, I disagree. This revolves entirely around PKers being frustrated that they can't get kills off of players that don't want to give them to them.

PKers will tell you that you're lame because you choose to PK somewhere like Graal City or the Angel Clan pond, because it's their preference not to PK there.
PKers will tell you that you're lame because you deny them kills when they're PKing you at your tower, because it's their preference not to do it.

It sounds a lot like, "You have to PK where we want you to and you have to do it the way we want you to." That's fine, but staff don't have to validate your random, player-made rules... The only suggestion I'm seeing that's even half-reasonable is making it so that same-guild kills do not raise your kills. Again though, it seems pretentious and unnecessary, but it's a lot more sensible then randomly giving the kill to the last player that hit you.

I agree, people can PK anywhere, angel clan, or anywhere. But I do think the system should give the kill to the person who hit last if they suicide after. On other servers they fix this:
like era, you can't run into a NON PK building and eat, they allow players to keep killing you in NON PK area's if they were previously killing each other.
It is annoying and discouraging to be killing somebody for 30 seconds just so they can run away into a baddy at .5... It's annoying because you should be awarded that kill for hitting them last.

I used to pk, especially in castle and sards. People always arrow their friends for easy kills at 0.5. These are the strategies people love to use in towers. Kills going to the last registered hit from a non-ally/item/spike/baddy would definitely make pk fun for a lot of people, especially for me. It's lame when people deny kills, and I stopped doing that.

Sards
Even though I used to run away at 0.5 - 1hp, people do this all the time now.
You get their health low, and they run away. They either run away into the spike room, or they leave through the entrance, enter their house, and bomb themselves.

Castle
When at castle, people will get kills in the flag room, run outside, enter house, and die. The defenders don't get the kill, because of this, and a lot of defenders will do the same thing.

Destiny
People will fall through the holes, and kill themselves with the spikes.

York
Run away into the barrel room, and kill themselves with the explosions.

Other than that, the other towers like MoD, Swamp, and Snowtown were never that crazy on denying kills through suicides.

Just make the kill go towards the pker, not the guildmates, allies, or spikes.
It's annoying when you are getting kills very slowly, because every defender just keeps running away, or giving the kill to their friends. I got that person from 3hp to 0.5, and the kill goes to their friends. Ridiculous.

You can keep doing your strategies of having full hp in flag room, just give the kill to the person who actually worked for it.

So...it would literally not be different.

Wat? I'm sure you understand the way kills work is that the person who hits them at 0.5 gets the kill. There is no "working for it" past that. PKing has never been some organized, 1-on-1 activity where one side is the definitive loser or winner... That's sparring.

What happens if I follow you around, watching you PK, and I hit every player you get to 0.5? Does the new suggestion become "kills should now go to the player that hit them the most?"

What happens when you're PKing at my tower and someone else is there and I run to PK them at 0.5? These rules are just dumb and exploitable, as is trying to make PKing more and more like sparring. If you want to do organized PvP between two players, we have something for that...

What I mean is, allies and guildmates shouldn't be able to get the kill at 0.5hp, when a pker dropped them down to that from 3.0hp. The guild member or ally can arrow them in order to get them back to full hp, but the kill should go towards the pker who hit last.

Not talking about a pker stealing a kill from another pker who worked hard. I'm talking about guild members boosting kills off of each other, after the pker got them to 0.5. The defender runs away and gives the kill to their friends. Needs to be stopped.

As someone that never pk'd for stats I never cared about healers and suicides. Chasing people was part of the fun.

Shout out to BlackStarr, Fork, Jonepi/Yonchan, L3GAYCY and all the unknown runners I encountered throughout my pk'ng days.

Yeah, but some people get super mad. I used to do this so much that the whole guild would start blocking the exits at sards, castle, and snow.
At castle, I would use the pots to heal. Then they added ap. I would spam bombs to heal, then they added bomb drops.

http://i.imgur.com/Dues5Bz.gif

Back to my point. It discourages people from pking at the tower, if the defenders keep on killing each other, while you keep getting them to 0.5. It certainly makes me want to not pk. I think that's what op is saying as well. It's annoying, and just ruins the game for a lot. Easier to just spam sword in mobs, and MoD.

The entire time week that I played on Facebook Classic, I just PK'd at towers. I was #1 on the daily kills board every day. The point of PKing is to get kills. If they run and kill themselves to deny you kills they are just going to lose the tower, anyway.

I'll say I'm more experienced with casual PKing. There are instances where people just run away, kill themselves, and return to continue fighting when I just want to casually PK. It's exclusively antisocial in that context. I personally don't like the current tower system and would prefer a match system, but that's a whole other thread. I don't believe intentional death ought to be beneficial strategically in those cases either.

Meanwhile, having a stronger negative side-effect as an effect of team kills, suicide, or accidental death (other than the D count) would add higher stakes to performance at 0.5 hearts. It would add a level of tension not to screw up when you or someone in your guild is not at low health. Tension is an extremely strong gameplay element (which of course would be even better exemplified with match-based towering, but again, that's another discussion). Fighting Gannon when he can kill you with one more hit? That's a rush.

They still get a death for dying.

They won't lose a tower when it's just one pker, and they are denying any kill towards that one person.

Deaths that don't really matter.

I come from the 2010 zone pkrs, everyone there was a healer(including me) and we would make many people rage. I remember 2 guys spent like a week chasing me around trying to get a kill from me. When one of them finally killed me they were relieved and stop going to the zone. What most people don't understand is that the reason people used to do that was to make people rage and not because they didn't want to get a death.

Anybody that has raged in-game knows that when you rage you become an easier player to beat.


I can't speak for everyone else, but I've never been discouraged by runners/suicides. If players are going to get discourage over a silly thing such as runners then they shouldn't pk towers(MoD doesn't count).

Can confirm, 98% of all ragers I've seen suck.

What if team killing or killing yourself spawned/warped you outside of the tower? It could possibly discourage players from doing it more often (a tiny bit) since it wouldn't be as beneficial to them for doing it like it is now.

Zeroos is pretty good tho

That was what basically stopped me from saying 100

People were running their strategies, so I decided to start recording.




Total Suicides in 1 hour at Sards: 19 (Didn't count the team kills, and the deaths that I wasn't there to witness)
Note: It isn't always that low. Just letting people know that it happens, and sometimes guilds as a whole will run away and deny any kill.

David Suicide Count: 9


Extra People, Few Suicides Count: 10


Aguzo Suicide Count: 4 (2 by accident, but I'll count them)

lol dont tower. if u wanna pk, go to swamp pond.

Good strat to annoy pkers to get them to rage and stop pking