Lmao, I just realized I sounded exactly like DJ when he was lecturing atheists.

Sorry if I came off douchy and pre*****cent.

not true. muslims dont worship satan.

oh thats neat.

Look pal, I respect your religion. Why not respect mine?

cool, tell me more

your right. im sorry for being so stupid and lacking a brain. i guess i just didnt consider that what i was saying was hurting you. :[

Deism
 

I think the time has come to summon Colin to /closethread.

Lmao.

Didn't religion originate from fear? People feared death so they invented heaven and reincarnation or some other place that's safe after you die so they didn't have to worry.

I don't believe in any religion. I think it's just dumb. How can people honestly believe what people 1000's and 1000's of years ago said about one man some how resurrecting etc. and all religions are different so it's just multiple different beliefs so how could you even know what one is REAL? I don't believe in any of it but it still is a huge mystery as to how we got here. Like just imagine if there was no life, world, space, universe, colors, just nothing existed. It would be weird idk how to explain it but idk

For some it's a comfort thing, believing in a higher power gets them through the day, it wakes them up in the morning thinking, "Hey, I have a God/higher power who loves me.' for others it's a way of life. It's how they were raised as a child, and they don't want to let go.

There are millions of reasons as to why someone would want to believe in religion / god, you just gotta live and let live, am I right?

It becomes hard to understand because everything we have ever known has had a beginning and an end (or will end). Having experienced that our entire lives it becomes hard to imagine something that always was, as opposed to something that just started. Lots of mystery still left out there, regardless of religion.

For atheists, what happened before the big bang? Logic would tell us that something can't come of nothing.

For Christians / other religions, if God created everything, who created God?

That entire concept from both ends is interesting.

Does anyone here see religious books as actual proof of said religion?
The thing that always bothers me is that it was thought of and written by humans.

Like, what if a random stranger starts preaching about something and people agree with it, will he be remembered as being of a similar position as jesus after thousands of years and will that lead to a new religion?
For all we know that stranger might just be making stuff up yet still obtain people to follow his believes.

I know this is a sensitive topic for a lot of people and I don't mean to offend anyone but it's just something I wonder. Like how can people believe what a human said is the actual truth?

Why do people argue over Sparring, it is dumb and so is Sparring.

No matter how big the Christian population is, it's going to die eventually. Ancient Greeks for example took their religion very seriously. They want as far as to name cities and build statues of their Gods. Now look. Today people say those God's are just myths. Years from now our religion will just be another lie

He doesn't.

He doesn't.

That sounds deceiving.

That's like asking how magnets work, they just do. Same goes for the big bang, it just happened.

"They just do" doesn't explain how magnets work. Humans studied it and found out for themselves how and why magnets do what they do. The same can't be said for the Big Bang. Fulgore is referring to questions that have yet to be answered, so no, that's not like asking how magnets work.

http://www.howmagnetswork.com/

God always was. No one created him, he never even was created. He just is. I don't understand how that's possible either, but I also believe that humans cannot possibly understand many things. We don't know what it's like for anything to be perfect, to be forever, or anything like that.

I think his actual thought process was deeper than simply the magnet itself. Why do elements react the way they do? Why do they actually attrack or repel each other? If you break everything down to the smallest possible piece, there's an infinite amount of unknown questions that no one on Earth will ever know the answer to.

As for the existence of religion... I am a Christian, and I believe it's the only correct religion. Even if it's not, I use religion to try to better myself and to potentially serve others. It's a fascinating concept in itself that changes people's behaviors for the good of the world. The idea of religion at the very least is something great for everyone. It doesn't even matter if you believe it's real or not, it is real because we (humans) make it real, and allow it to change our lives to better ourselves and others. I honestly wish athesists would believe in a religion - any religion. It's pretty humbling to believe in someone infinitely more powerful than you. I personally think religion causes a great outlook on life, and it also helps tremendously at death to believe that you or someone else is not actually dying, but rather just leaving the human world and going to Heaven.

I don't like limiting myself to a certain idea and grasping to it like it is the absolute truth because that might actually prevent you from reaching what you want (the absolute truth). As for Deism, how is this god different from an imaginary entity? You can't test or observe its effects if any, it's like saying "There is a a magical unicorn with 6 limbs that governs the universe but has no real effect on it whatsoever". Look up the parable of the invisible farmer.

Basically all religion does is give people something to just Believe(not real) in. If there is a god why would he allow us all to have sickness and cancer and... Nevermind just pointless to text out. I wouldn't want to believe in a religion basically, it's a waste of time.

Heard of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? It's basically what you said.
Last Thursdayism is another interesting one.

Before I was a Satanist, I was Atheist, and before that, Christian. I've bounced around religions before, but while I was atheist I felt like a better person, because I didn't have to worry about a God judging my every move, and asking for forgiveness everytime I broke one of his/her many, many rules. When I followed God, and the Christian religion, I felt a tremendous amount of pressure to follow rules that made no sense to me, and to follow a God that I never really believed in, in the first place. I understand where you're coming from, wanting people to believe in something, but sometimes it's nice to just live life by the day, and not worry about the afterlife or someone watching over you.

Granted, it all comes down to your true beliefs, but my pastor gave a pretty good sermon not too long ago. He described how some people want to create their own religion, and pick parts of it that they like, and leave the rest out. He said that you can't do that, otherwise you're just fooling yourself. If you believe in that religion, you can't pick which rules you want to follow. Nothing is ever easy, and following the rules of each religion applies to that. I'm a Lutheran, which doesn't have many of the weird rituals that many religions have. We basically just read the Bible straight up and don't try to interpret it too deeply, or read into something that has nothing to read in to. For me (and Lutheranism as a whole), God doesn't judge us. In fact, they stress constantly how he forgives you for everything you do, hence Jesus dying on the cross. We also believe that in God's eyes, all sin is equal. Murder is no worse than thinking bad thoughts about someone, or stealing, or cheating, etc. Most of the "rules" honestly are simple moral rules, that most people (inside or outside of that religion) believe themselves. Such as murder is wrong, adultering is wrong, etc. Christianity doesn't care much about what you do, but rather that you ask for forgiveness and attempt to change (which really is what people should do, regardless of religion). Religion is a strong motivator for many (and myself) to fulfill that change that we want. It does come down to your actual beliefs, but if you would believe in a God, or a religion, I truly believed what I heard in the sermon that you can't take what you like and leave out the rest.

I've said this numerous of times on other religious thread, and there a lot of them. The way I see things, I believe in religion soley for my well being in the afterlife. Some believe that when you pass away, you become one with the earth and reincarnate as a cow or tree or something, and that's it. But that just doesn't do it for me. I believe that there is an afterlife, a heaven and a hell, and that if I follow this certain religion, I will spend an eternity in either heaven or hell.

Dying a pointless life just doesn't do it for me either. Living my carefree life on earth, with no rules to listen to whatsoever (SIKE! That's what laws are for). Once I'm dead, I want more, I don't just want to live for perhaps a couple of years and die and reincarnate as a cow or something, I want more. Believing in Christianity gave me hope for my future, that maybe I might be able to live with the ones I love for an eternity in paradise. Utopia really. That's why I chose to believe in Christianity. And even if my religion may prove to be wrong, and it's all just one big fairy tale. My death still won't be in vain because it's what I wanted.

No this doesn't mean anything pertaining to the thread. I just wanted to clarify why I believe in Christianity for those of you whom don't know.

I don't think there's such thing as a "pointless life".

Everyone's lives are so filled with events and stuff, considering your mortal life as pointless is pretty sad.

It's like saying your parents might as well smother you to death the moment you're born to save you the trip of about 80+ years.

Life isn't just about what happens in the future it's about what you leave behind and the past you create.

And "wanting more" after life, to me, is kind of a selfish thing to believe in a religion. Your life is precious so value it but don't forget about the lives around you as well.

I'm sure you'll make more out of your life if you don't always look to the future but remember the past and live the present.

TL;DR: Just ****ing live your life. It's not pointless.

Before this thread, you were cool. After this thread, you are my new best friend. Capiche?

_I'm gonna add a short piece_

Lets just for a moment, presume that Christianity is correct, everything about it is true.

And for this moment you are have been married for 20 something odd years, never raised your voice with them, never did anything to harm them physically or emotionally your spouse. Now if your spouse went out and fondue'd a good friend of yours. How would you feel? Bad. That's probably strongly similar to the way God feels when you stray away and fall in sin. He is heartbroken that someone he loves would fall away from a good life that has been laid out for them. You're welcome for that Cappin' America reference.

_I'm gonna ramble more_

On the subject of "Why does Hell exist?" we are gonna jump on in. Now you are on trial, You are as innocent as a bag of lettuce, and the defendant in as guilty as that chocolate bar you just swallowed whole. The Judge is about to give the verdict, you're exited because you know you are innocent... And BOOM... You are the one going to prison for life. Not fair? You didn't do anything and the guilty party gets off scott-free. And now you are on your death bed, right beside the same person that wronged you. And he gets to go to Heaven and you burn in Hell. How does THAT make you feel? You did everything right in your life, believed in God, went to church, prayed, repented, donated, heck! Even sacrificed! ... And you get the short straw. And the one that should be sitting in your chair is partying it up in Heaven, never stepped foot in a church once, blasphemed, and all that bad stuff. You deserve that, and he deserves this. But why? God is the Judge, Heaven means free-life, and Hell is the prison. The difference between walking free and imprisonment is the believe in God. People who have scoffed at God.. And turned away and never did anything for anyone but themselves don't deserve to have to have eternal happiness. They deserve to suffer, just like that guy who cut you off in front of Wal-Mart. Meanwhile those who knew what was right and believed in God get to live in Heaven with all of their fellow Believers. That is why Hell exists. The same reason prisons exist today. To keep the evil from mixing with the good.

convert to pastafarianism we have holy spaghetti

I read most of this and what I comprehended was that you said that if you basically get accused of doing soemthin you didn't do and you end up in prison for life for it, that you go to hell? What? That's the stupidest ****ing thing I've ever heard of. Why the **** would "God" send you to hell for being falsely accused and then send someone to heaven to "party" for murdering someone? If this is what you said, you sound straight stoopid

Why would Satan punish you for doing bad, committing sin, things like that, if he encourages you to do so? I see hell differently than all of you. In my mind, (if hell and heaven even exist, which I don't really think they do, but if they do...) hell has all the rebels, the LGBT+ people, etc. But they don't get punished. The Bible created the idea that you'll be punished to keep you inside a little religous bubble, but people like me learn to break out of the bubble and live our lives to the fullest. And hell is for those who break out of the bubble, to separate us from those who don't. And I mean, cmon, if you're someone like me..do you really want to end up in heaven? It's full of God fearing, bible reading, bubble people. Not exactly who I want to spend eternity with.

What I'm getting from you guys is that Satanism isn't an actual religion since by standard religion definitions for it to be considered one you must believe that

• Something is real
• Said something has a controlling power
• You worship said something

To me it just sounds like Atheism with more complaining about how everyone is 3scared5u

Well if you die, you are not living, and if your not living, you don't know what living is, and also would not be able to know anything since u would not exist, and even not existing wouldn't exist...hehe....so therefor, what the hell is heaven and hell?

I wouldn't mind living my life on repeat tho honestly...tho I may wanna try being a girl. That may be interesting.

**Also what if all our 'de ja vu' moments, are actually us remembering what we did in our previous life, and that we are actually just repeating this life, rarely remembering the previous ;D **

warning: lots of text

So the all loving god can sentence one of his people to eternal punishment? He loves/forgives you for your entire life, but then that all disappears when he sentences you to something worse than the void? That certainly seems strange.

But you say it's about separating the good from the evil? Well: Plus, even if you say "the bible tells me right from wrong" then I'll respond with this.

You were born to a burglar dad, your mother left. He teaches you to cheat, steal, and survive. He teaches you that stealing is the way of life for someone like you.
So you do, you steal from Christians, atheists, whomever. You still struggle to survive. You never help another soul because you can barely help your own. You commit sin after sin, unknowingly, because you weren't born in a first world country where religion is the way. You never see missionary's, because you are a thief, you don't hang around.

Eventually, you die. Then your judged. By what you said, this man should go to hell. But what did he do wrong? He had no chance. He never knew religion. He had to survive, and had to sin along the way to do so.

Just because you aren't born with a silver spoon doesn't mean you shouldn't have a chance.

Besides, evil and good are such a weak concepts. If we restarted the universe, right now, and instead of what we have now we had everyone do the good thing. Suddenly, your good is just normal. If everyone is like that then it isn't good anymore. Back to reality, Does doing the "good" thing mean something different to a poor man compared to a rich man? Does doing the good thing mean something different for a USA citizen, and a USSR citizen? If someone is raised in a society where murder is normal, should god judge them different? Well, that doesn't seem fair, if he does.

Perspective is different, circumstances are different, people are different.

(Note; im not against religion, I'm just trying to make you think).

Religion is just a perspective.

May I ask why you think this is the case? Because a book says so?

I am Catholic but I do not agree with everything the Bible says because it is outdated and not caught up with the current times.

If everything in the Bible was true then every person currently on Earth would be going to hell (assuming everyone has cut their hair at least once during their lifetime).

Oh yeah, right. Lemme ask you you this. How many times have you been to jail ms.rebel? You cannot avoid rules, there will always be rules in any kind of environment to contain order. Sure, you broke out of the religious bubble, but than you've got all the rules (laws) to follow on earth. So how's that for breaking out of the bubble and no rules. Psh, get real. Life is all one big rule book.

I can't believe people can call "Satan" the evil in the world and even believe in hell nor heaven, when it was God who had let millions of children, parents and animals die because it was simply "his will".

She is saying something completely different, how are you even able to relate what shes saying with jail? She does not want to follow the rules of an old book which was written (imo) by hypocrites,

Exactly because of that^

Most people who have evolved with time obviously realized that the church had to break their own rules to still be able to attract followers, because who in the right mind would support the things they've done in the past?

Now if you'd ask me, I think anyone who is still able to support the Church or any religion that did those horrible actions back then, needs to seriously rethink their choice in religion. Because if you would be disagreeing now with the things the christian church did back then, you would most likely get executed, so how could you still label yourself to that religion? Even if it has changed now, the first old book isnt going to.
Only one pope ever apologized but ykno, after a few thousand years. Bit late if you wanna ask me?


Most likely everyone on earth broke those, which means we are all literally going to hell, and imo thats the best place to be, RIGHT MANGSI
Because who the hell would prepare their entire life just to die and go to heaven?


Another really funny thing why most people have a weird image on satanists (laveyan ones I suppose):



Not trying to disrespect anyones religion here, I'd just like to see what people have to say about the things the church did back then.

FTFY it's tough being undertale scum

I think the logic behind it is that God gives you an infinite amount of second chances throughout life, however once you are dead, there is simply nothing else you can do (because they're dead).

when we die we die

**** it

Satan (according to Christianity) is actually condemned to hell himself basically. God created hell and satan is just binded to it because he (who actually was an angel) betrayed God. Gay people go to Heaven too... All you need to get to Heaven is believe in God, and that Jesus died on the cross for everyone's sins. Murderers can go to Heaven, adulterers can go to Heaven, transgender people, gay people, etc.

The Bible doesn't answer every question, and the question you posed is one of them. The Bible never tells you what happens to babies that die, or people who never heard of the religion. That's why it tells its followers to preach the word and spread it across the world. Honestly, though, in today's world, it would be extremely hard to never have even heard of Christianity. There's a story in the Bible where a rich person donates a lot of money to the church, but an old woman donates just a few cents. The old woman was praised for her deed because all she had was just those few cents, while the rich person still had much of his riches.

When is life ever fair? You want everything handed to you, but nothing worthwhile was ever easy. You think if there was a God that he should hand down everything for you? It's your job to overcome the challenges yourself, along with his guidance. Perspective has nothing to do with it if you involve religion in it. There's no perspective on good and bad. It is wrong to commit murder, no matter how you were raised. The whole idea of religion, though, is not what you've done, but how you change. You can't expect religion to simply be easy because we are all sinners. The goal is to overcome the challenges you face.

The church was corrupt, and what they did actually went against the Bible and God. Also, why does everyone seem to think your actions determine whether you go to Heaven or hell? They don't. Also, why would you want to prepare your entire life to go to hell? The bible tells us that we cannot judge others, for we are all sinners. We don't even know what truly is right and wrong, we just developed our own concept of it. (Assuming Christianity is correct) Who would you be to judge the God that always was, and created everything you know? Our small-minded, ignorant selves on Earth cannot possibly comprehend the reasoning of a God that can do anything. Dying on Earth is partially worthless, because the real goal of life (again, assuming Christianity is correct) is going to Heaven. You think about when everyone died (I believe you're thinking when he flooded the world) but really they just died to be saved.

It is your own belief that determines what you think, but many of you are now criticizing how a Christian can believe this stuff when the Bible says (some story). But most of your stories, or the intentions or ideas of them are wrong.

Just a little add-on (maybe not so little). I'm a Christian but I support gay marriage. Sure, the Bible says it's wrong, and I believe that, but I don't judge others for it. I commit many sins every day, and in God's eyes, all sin is equal. Who am I to judge other's sins? In the perspective of a Christian, our life on Earth is one giant test for our eternal life in Heaven. Our Earthly lives are all about serving others and God, so that once we die on Earth, we can be rewarded with eternal life in Heaven, where everything is perfect (which no one can even comprehend).

I was going by what a lot of people still believe to be true today. I know people pick and choose what they want, look at most baptist Christians. All the Mormons I knew believed that LGBT people were going to hell, the churches I went to said that if you rebeled against god's word you were going to hell. Heck, half of my cousins, aunts, etc. Believe that anyone who disobeys the Bible are going to hell.

People pick and choose what they want to hear. So I Was going by what I've always heard from the people around me growing up in a Christian family.

That's sad. I'm extremely grateful I'm a Lutheran (type of Christian) since we only read the Bible and interpret it for what it says, rather than reading too much into it and making our own conclusions. People shouldn't be representing the religion and telling people that they will go to hell if they're gay. As I've said before, in God's eyes, all sin is equal. People just judge what they don't understand and they don't have the right to twist God's word to help them judge others. If people who were gay went to hell just because they were gay, then everyone who ever once lied, thought bad about a person, or anything would go to hell (everyone). That's far from the case. The whole reason Jesus died on the cross is to forgive our sins. It doesn't matter what sin it is, it's forgiven, you just have to ask for it. You can't believe what some people say about their religion because many people twist it for themselves, even though it's supposed to be about everyone else, not just themselves.

:quiet:

I have a question. I'll start off with a statement. Christians, and most other religions, aim to bring others into their religion and to believe. Do atheists or satanists care what others think? Do they want to sway the beliefs of others to their side?

IF heaven/hell were real, my young mind would probably believe what I've always been told, because it's been ingrained in the back of my mind, that if heaven is real a certain group of people is going to hell. But I don't believe in it because to me it's a ****ty idea in general to have someone sent to heaven/hell based of their religion, actions in life, or anything like that. So it's easier for me to just not believe in anything like that all together.


And personally, I don't try to sway people to my side. I want people to be happy in whatever religion they want to be in, without me shoving my religion down their throats.

Yes and no, works both ways.

Some Christians will try to convert people, others will not. Same applies to atheism and satanism.

Atheism isn't really a belief though, just a group of people who choose to not believe but some of those people do try really hard to down talk other religions and make sure everyone knows how stupid religion is which is why they often have a bad reputation. Easier to just say you are agnostic or don't care about it.

I would assume it's pretty easy for satanism to attract edgy teenagers to join but I don't think they aim to convert as much as Christians because like they claim they don't really believe anything so kind of dumb to try and convert people.

Yeah um I'm pretty sure exactly 1% of Christians and Catholics combined actually think the corrupt Church did good things.

Are you serious? What has the pope done that he needs to apologize for? He's not apologizing for his actions, he's apologizing for the actions of popes that have lived before him. If you really think that isn't an honorable action, I think you need to rethink your perspective on this matter.

Uh, why? It's already established that the Church was corrupt. It's not like we were alive back then.

The Church was corrupt and everyone knows that. It's what they taught us in history books. What more is there to say?

Times have changed. It's not like the Church is banishing people from their countries today, or executing homosexuals. Don't live in the past, live in the now.

just a protip for you edgy debate pros: dont confuse religions with their followers, argue one or the other to make it easier for yourself. : - )

I didn't meant that those people would support the things they did, I meant as in support the church as it is of right now.
I think it's hypocritial to overlook the **** that has been done in the past.
It is wrong, and it should not ever be forgiven nor forgotten, its a religion and not a person. People change but that book doesn't and the things that this church did in the past is beyond cruel, dont you agree?
People don't forget any of the wars that happened, so why would anyone want to forget all the Witchhunts and the deaths of people who would believed in something else? Why would someone support a hypocritial church like that? Just because they're saying different things now makes you overlook the fact that so many people have died just because they didn't believe in the things the church has told them?

I don't really think that I stated the fact that it isn't a honorable action.. but alright? Sorry that you picked it up like that I guess, I meant it as in :
It was very late, very very late. Obviously its amazing that at least someone stood up and apologized I guess?

Thats kinda like saying that WW1 or WW2 didn't really matter because we weren't really alive back then, or wow dude the twin towers happened quite a while ago, who cares?
And about those ISIS people literally ****ing killing anyone who doesn't share their beliefs, dude come oooooon, right. Its not like something is repeating itself in history right now pfft?


NOTE:
Obviously its not a total **** religion, it has a TON of good aspects and all and I get why people would be christian, but I kind of don't at the same time? I mean I really dont man, I have no clue.

Yah but Vici satanism stems from people who actually worshipped the devil and did very disturbing things because of it, including murder and torture.

Your 'religion' history is just as bad so maybe you should take your own advice and rethink that.

Things done in the past by popes like witch hunting/ the crusades were more done for power than actual religious means and they often lied about stuff like God would forgive the crusaders etc when they sinned by killing innocents and it was alright, these were the actions of people not the religion because the Bible does not state any thing about killing other people unlike the first forms of satanism that told people to go sacrifice others and them selves

Bud,
Laveyan satanism comes from Atheism but is just mixing in simple rituals for bonding with other people so I think you got something wrong there. Killing people or animals or raping little boys is strictly prohibited in LAVEYAN satanism dude and it shouldn't be related with Wiccan stuff? It just simply took the name of satanism but that doesnt makes the entire religion a ****ing murderclub.