Since Aimee claims it isn't illegal to spam someone, I guess I can spam her since it's "legal".

Not a good idea. Staff harassment is banable. You really don't want to give them a valid excuse, now do you?

Oh but of course when she harasses us countless times by warping its fine :) or if they spam us its fine right? Its "different" of course right?

It's not considered staff harassment if I'm not saying anything negative to them, now is it?

I dunno, ask every player who has ever been banned for harassment or cursing?



Yeah, that's because you're smart. You surely understand hit detection, lag, and other elements of the game more than the average player. Some GPs have been monkey-trained into believing something as stupid as doing an emoticon in a doorway is strictly forbidden.



Good, as I suspected.

That's to their interpretation.

Do remember this, they're an admin. They're "qualified" to handle a situation in the best way appropriate, which is by blocking the player rather than handing them a ban for something that they didn't actually do which could result in a bad name for them.

From what we've learned from this thread, not all of them handles things appropriately like supposed to. I don't want to argue, I just want to say spamming them probably isn't in your best interests.

Might not be, but it will give them a taste of their own medicine.

If someone were actually warping and abusing as such it should be emailed and management of the game can investigate. If you're right you're right but hate bashing without knowing 100% if it was them isn't fair to them. As for someone saying they favor tower guilds towering as with spar is a huge part of the game and where a majority of the problems occur with lag abuse hacking/cheating etc, so yes of course staff is at forts. I myself report anytime someone lags out, is unkillable or appears to be chat/lag blocking. Staff shows up, not because it's a "staff" guild, because it's their job.

I'm no longer staff, I quit a couple months back, and spamming is block able not ban able even if one is on their staff account.

That's fine. Spam away. I have another member of a different guild who does it all the time to me and my guild.

I'd say almost every one of your replies to the thread so far have been a deflection and attempt to draw attention away from several people reporting the abusive stuff that Envy has done. You haven't acknowledged it once, yet. I don't blame you I guess, because she's probably responsible for three digits in fort hours for you guys.

I've emailed and others have too, probably. It's our option to post about it here on the forums, we don't need to cover it up or hide it. It's a problem, and posting it here has obviously given more attention to the situation. Why is it such a concern of yours to keep us hushed?

So answer me: Does Envy abuse her administrative powers to get forts for you guys? Surely you know and see this, you're the leader of Vintage. One of two answers will occur:

• "Yes", in which case Envy should be immediately removed from staff and your guild's hours should probably be reset
• "No", in which case you're either lying to yourself or just completely irresponsible and delusional to what goes on around you, which will eventually be exposed and proven without dispute (as if the thread hasn't gone in that direction enough thus far) and your guild's hours should then be reset

What? I spent the last few years in the battle arena and can't relate to this problem you're talking about. Admins and towers are a problem because they revolve around guilds, flocks of people who are your friends and you will feel pressured by. There's practically never any of this drama in the battle arena.

Sure, those are the good staff members. What about Envy? What happens when I report a player from your guild who is lag blocking, and Envy is too caught up in the apparent thrill and excitement of rushing my tower to handle the situation accordingly?

This forum should make us all Anon's so that bias in responses to arguments won't occur. Its bewildering at the fact many people have been proven wrong, or their arguments contradicted yet still believe they're right because they have a personal grudge against themselves.

Although 4chan has many disturbing things posted because of this, the community is generally more honest and aren't afraid of speaking out.

oh **** so offtopic...

Or or or... She likes what is going on, so turns a blind eye, because it is her own guild. Surely if it was another guild, she would immediatly get right on it and report. Am i right, or, am i right?

Don't feel like quoting the whole argument about "chat blocking" but on iDevices leaving the touch keyboard up takes a **** on your FPS, so it does increase blink time.

It should just put people on pause when they open up the keyboard...

No, I have not deflected what you've accused Envy of in any matter, I've told you to email it, and if you had, it's quite possible, and probable that nothing was found as abuse. Rufus did a "clean sweep" of the GP situation months ago as he's stated before. It's almost impossible to abuse staff and not be caught. Also you're speaking of 2 people whom are hardly active in the guild. 80% of our tower time is when Ast is as work and envy is at school.

I'm sure it does on iDev, but if you get a drop in FPS when you press Tab on PC then you've got a serious problem. Victor and others that were banned use PC. It was just careless. The entire chat/lag blocking thing needs to be fixed entirely so that stuff like this can't happen.



So your yes-or-no answer to the question is "no," right? Just want to make sure I understand you and have it spelled out plainly to be on some sort of record. Are you confident enough in your answer to consent to having your guild's hours reset "if" she is caught abusing for your guild?

Agree, same with iDevice chat or guild chat.

I report members of my own guild playing unfair yes, kick them, and report. I've banned members of my own guild that were quite significant as well. If youre a responsible GP you do your job and do it right.

Yes. She is no longer a prime in my guild also, just helps, but yes, if cheating occurred it occurred. If she legitimately warped members and banned unfairly then go for it.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/1434...ist-pump-o.gif

Thanks for participating in the discussion.

No problem :)

Now close thread please.

And prevent a very progressive and revealing thread from continuing to shed light on a huge issue in one of Graal's most fun elements of gameplay? Nope! It's going very well and the pressure is on now. Surely Aster and Envy have heard of this thread, maybe the problem will solve itself.

I am saying prove the issue and it will be dealt with. You're bashing people without proof, I thought you were above that. You're calling out a "kid" on a forum for no reason. Last Saturday or Sunday when Rebel was attacking you were asking me to take from you at 12 am est because your members were banned and you felt there was staff abuse and didn't want Rebellious to get. Now, because we attacked its my guild responsible.

Why close it? More discussions regarding the issue can happen.

You clearly just don't like getting attacked or loosing, and when you do you make a hate thread about it. You lost a fort, on a game, get over it. When your members were banned we weren't even involved.

It's just a hate fest at this point. If a player gets banned in the game and comes on the forums they delete the thread and tell the player to email, this is no different especially since they're calling out people in particular.

Ahh reminds me of when Warrlord was first hired. His guild had Swamp and he was defending while on admin account, where he was becoming invisible. Really unfair to attackers. Good times :)

Btw Thallen staff can get a record of this as well. Of you pming me to take Sardon when we refused. So yeahhh.

This issue has seriously died down, though. You can't complain just because of something that happened in the past, because, believe it or not, the past is over.

I don't really understand what is the big deal of staff in towers they have to check towers from time to time to make sure nothing bad is going on.
And Staff in guilds really don't have a bigger upper in having people join your guild. It is like any other guild if someone wants to join they will ask you for a tag.

I been towering with vintage the last view months and I mainly only see people they started out with when i joined we got a few in since we do have friends in guilds.

Aster is the owner of VG so she would get members Liz and aimee are from com and I am from Cxe. 99 P sucked dik at taking towers and holding them.
To me admins really dont have the upper hand.
Not everyone join guilds for admins they join it to make friends or because they have friends in it.
I have been seen admins that did abuse their powers to banned people for attacking towers and even helping people take towers on their staff account. I did get one scrub fired for it.

I haven't seen aster evny abuse their powers when abel lags out the ass where the point he can't be hit but only by arrows.
They don't waste their time to be on since everyone will just b*tch admin abuse when they are doing something wrong and more people will hate them for banning someone for a good reason. People are childish and only do **** to make others look bad when they are on the ones that are ban for the right reason.

Er, this has nothing to do with "attacking" at a fort, I welcome that. Please, continue to do it. This thread has to do with admins, specifically admins in guilds like yours, abusing their powers to contribute to fort hours.



What are you even talking about? You're going completely off track, it's like you've convinced yourself this thread was made for a reason other than why it obviously was. All you do is deflect and try to draw attention away from the issue. You act like this is a personal attack against you.



??? What are you going on about?! What does me politely offering to give your guild Sardon's have anything to do with Envy abusing? Why the hell would it be of any concern to me if an admin can see the logs of me offering to give you a tower? ???

I'm well-aware that messages are saved to the server. Here's another suggestion for any concerned admin reading this thread: read through my PM history with Envy. My earliest PM history with her, not my latest PMs where I am playfully trolling her with hearts and kissy faces.
After the incident where she was invisible, I PMed her and confronted her about it. When I threatened to bring the issue to higher admins, she made the claim that she had already talked to Rufus about it. Sounds like an Aimee tactic, just trying to deflect me from continuing in my efforts to expose her abuse. In some nervous, last-ditch effort to cover her tracks, she PMs me and claims that she's "sorry that she was lagging," out of the blue. She knows what she did.



I guess you didn't read the thread. The past? As in, yesterday? This week? If you were active at towers, there's a much greater chance you'd have never made this post.



I understand that opinion, because you're a member of a guild that has been consistently on the advantageous end of guilds having admins.

But thats not just the point. Like my picture earlier in the topic, envy was doing something that we get banned for. See the problem? But say somebody else was doing it, non staff, and my guild tried attacking. I would have to feedback or report that player, and by the time the admin gets there, if the admin gets there, the player most likely is doing something else. But say vintage was attacking, and someone was lag blocking, its as easy as switching your account to warp that player immediatly. Anoter pic of abuse is what Thallen posted, of the invisible scout.

You're right, I skimmed most of this thread. But you guys don't give enough credit to the staff when issues like this improve because, while no system is flawless, the current staff team is far less flawed than it was in the recent past.

My opinion: Let admins be allowed to participate in towers to a certain extent, like I don't see the problem with what Neo does. But guilds with admin leaders are clearly at the advantage of recruits and lag/chat blocking. (They can get people instantly punished for it).

blablabla
tl;dr'd
sensed another flame war and skipped it

Yes, admin guilds were a huge problem in 2011. Magic, first 1k admin guild, had literally 10 graal police and NYN would scout and attack with staff account on. That summer, nearly every fort was controlled by an admin guild...

But this really is not a problem anymore. Vintage is the only tower guild with graal police leaders currently. Other than that and US, ive never seen other admins participate in guild activities.

Lol this is true^

I've never agreed with Thallen, but this phrase is golden.

The invincible scout may have been Xor, may have been Coco, may have been anyone working and just happened to be next to Sardon. That's crazy paranoia if you assume it was my guild when several staff patrols all towers.

But this, this is a little iffy.

Neo and Lulu help your guild more than Ast is on Vintage tag, and it's all fair play.

Another golden phrase concerning admins...this is all they look for nowadays.

The gulids i did join had staff but I didn't join it for that reason. I joined because I had friends in it. I was invited to Elly's guild and even to Magic since I acted as I wasn't stupid or a admin freak.
We didn't recruit any dik head that was ape **** to staff if you acted like a dumb ass we will kick you.
I never had staff to do tower checking for me or even in Cruxis we didn't use the up side of getting staff to scout towers.
We towered becasue we enjoyed it.
If staff do abuse their power yes they should be fired but first get a real case not just going in blind. I didn't go blind when that ass hat Asdf abused his powers along two other lag/hackers to get my towers. I had the case and made sure he would slip up and brought it up. YOu just have staff at the tower and banning people for the right reason.

Staff can be in towers if they want since it is their part to check and make sure everything is fine. You are going in blind.

oh Santa, thank you for showing up, i forgot to mention that CXE had like a dozen admins 0-1000 too. (also forgot Cruxis orig was 1st admin 1k..). So after CXE 1k THEN admins in tower guild was no longer a problem.

1. No that's not true lol
2. Neo is not a leader in my guild
3. Aster admin leader, so is Envy, and whether you notice it or not you guys do get recruits because of this.

cruxis was first cough cough i mean meow but yeah they were bad at the start.
People told me stories of Slim warping people out the tower for his guild to take it and many other stories of staff members abusing the system. I do remember staff were allowed to take towers with their staff account but only if they are on no cheats or anything that got them the upper hand but they changed that since that just shows a bad image to other staff members and most people would bich about it.

To me vintage is the only staff ran guild other ones aren't really the tower taking guilds but aster was a guild leader before staff member so i am sure and am sure that she wouldn't let the power get to her since she has had trouble with other admin gulds.


Envy is just a member. isn't a leader.

what Problem did CxE do?

We were treated as well as any other guild we were warned and I even helped rebellious when terry got your hours reset even tho people told me not to help yall. but i showed my support.

Whatever happens, don't turn this into some lame guild vs. guild contest. That's not what I was doing or trying to do. Vintage was singled out because it's the most glaring example of this happening.

This isn't supposed to be a flame thread, not pointing fingers and saying "DURRR, BUT YOU HAVE AN ADMIN, TOO," I really just want to see the offending admins taken care of and for it to never happen again in the future. It'd benefit pretty much everyone.

No. Bad.
http://www.graalians.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7735

Also this thread sorta making me want to try towering out again, though it sounds like most of them still have major blocking/laming issues.

Animee you are defending a lost cause. It's a spoil system! If you are an admin, you get recruits easier! Players only care about rubbing up to the staff by being SO loyal.
If I was an admin, my guild would be full and taking towers right now.

And it isn't just in towers! SIOBHY told a player that he was an admin but she couldn't record how interview!

Most of these admins are never helpful too! I had to talk to 5 admins once because some didn't know the answer or they were "working" (towering)

I'm sorry but the gp needs to be remade. A lot are immature assholes

For example look at this quote from the summer (I still agree with him though.) it's just rude!

Everyone at sards needs to toughen up

Admins are like the god of graal. If you met god would you rub up to him?
I predict yes.

Terrible analogy....

ph8 needs to redesign all of the iClassic towers and make them more like CW.