owning a gang is all and well and good, but when it comes to in-game competitions, such as basing, being an admin gives you an advantage whether you believe it or not,. especially as i said, when you are using your admin account on your laptop to screw with opposing members at same time as using your iphone account to base, looking as if your innocent.

it does occur, its been reported, multiple times with multiple admins.

its easy for an admin to say, "no, admins dont abuse powers".

talk to the people who compete against the admins.

ill say it again, if admins are allowed to own guilds, do not allow them to be online on both accounts at same time, its not neccesary and only leads to problems, it wont solve all the problems because im sure those such admins will still abuse powers until they are caught, whether or not they are on the other account basing at the same time, but it will deter it.

I think you have the horrible misconception that ALL admins sit there on two accounts abusing all day long for their Iphone device e,e
Admins owning guilds on their IPhone device shouldn't be limited in anyway.
This coming from someone who doesn't actually base and/or have an active gang.
As much as abuse may occur, report it and it will be looked into. We have logs for pretty much everything staff members do, if they're summoning people into bases, we'll know. Report it and it'll be dealt with.

i cant see a specific reason to be on both accounts at same time. especially if your basing with one account, other than..abuse.

i dont think all admins abuse power, i dont have a misconception of that at all, but i also know most admins dont run ULTRA competitive basing gangs and most people arent aware of the things those admins pull. and I truly believe some kind of limits need to be put on what admins can and cant do , especially when it comes to competing with normal players.

No particular reason you'd need to be on both; however there are situations such as needing to test things on an Iphone device while needing to be in control of your Staff account.
Some people like to multitask and deal with things on their staff account while also being active to their friends on their iphone device. You seem to boil any staff being on two accounts at the same time having them involved in basing.. this should be a minimal thing. I.E being there on their staff account to stop people abusing invincibility when it's reported.

As the others have said; if you know of any current Admin's actively abusing their powers to enhance their own guilds chances, report it. If you can not think of anyone currently abusing who has not been removed already, then this topic is pretty mute as that would suggest the problem lies with previous Admins rather than hindering the current ones.

I think this debate is actually a good one and not as cut and dry as some seem to think it is. I see mostly staff advocating that it is okay for staff to own gangs. I don't really play era, nor have I cared about the basing scene in a long time, so I will try to keep my opinion unbiased.

As with every debate, there are two sides. I see both sides of the coin as I am staff on iZone and I was a long time player on iEra AND iClassic. Now, the reason I say it is not as black and white as some believe it to be is for the following reasons,

-People would rather be in a staff gang than a player gang most of the time. Yes, I have seen it over and over. Between Magic and Zanza on classic to candy and sk on era. One of the reasons basing lost its charm for me back in the day was simply because staff members would use unreleased guns (call it testing~yet they still are not out), use seemingly unlimited grenades, would do freebies anytime their members needed ammo etc etc. I have been in quite a few staff gangs in my time on era, ranging between milkshake, jsi, bboy, HW, etc etc. It happens(not saying the staff listed did it), in fact the only reason you don't see unreleased guns in basing anymore is because I bitched to snk about 3 times about it.

-Staff need a break, so they should be able to enjoy the game. This is also true, staff do need a break and should be allowed to partake in activities. They also are able to find bugs and glitches by actually playing what everyone else plays. My suggestion was they should only be able to do so on their iDevices. This brings the question "what if they do not have one?" ~ in that case, it sucks for them really. I don't see why you would want to work for a server you have never played before.
Also, basing from PC against a bunch of iOS Devices gives the PC player a significant advantage. Not only are you able to click to shoot, but your usually have more of a view than an iPad zoomed out. Ever wonder how they know where to shoot from across the hall? Also, someone is going to claim the FB and Skyrider make it equal. Those laggy pieces of (french) is the most difficult thing to play on. They lag every 20 seconds and it just does not compare.

-Now with all that said, while on iZone, I partake in activities that involve planet taking (equivalent to basing). I do it rarely, but I still do it. The only time I use my staff account however, is when I am looking for bugs that need to be fixed. I also think staff should join OTHER peoples gangs instead of using their own. Both of my squads on Zone are just friendly squads, no "get to base or kick". But I find on era, the get to base is one of the leading gangs on the server. I remember the only time staff based, was when you asked for a challenge and a gang full of admins would attack you and it was actually enjoyable because they did not aim to just take your base and shut you out, it was more of a PK exercise than anything.

-Not to mention when a staff member has an idiot on their tag breaking rules and being a general twit, it reflects badly on them. That is how players minds work sadly.

Anyways, those are my views on the matter.

ok will do.

whole point of this thread was to bring these issues to light.

seems alot of admins are more aware of it now. =)

those are fair views.

and yes, the admins skewed my poll.

I didn't read the thread, or jester's crazy long post, but I believe staff should be allowed to own gangs. They're still players, right? Just so long as they don't abuse staff powers with the gang, such as invincibility in bases.

They can base on their staff account etc.
Its just if the tamper with the original walk speed to walk that little faster you'll know.

they can base on their admin account, and you wouldnt even know!

I personally have disagreed with admins owning large basing gangs because there will always be an underlying bias favoring the gang no matter what the situation may be. If a big gang leader gets hired they should have to cut ties with the gang and hand over leadership. I don't really have a problem with staff owning a social gang for friends as long as they don't get stupid advantages and crap like rooms and buildings; although I have always felt that most social gangs tend to just attract a fair share of brown nosers and and kiss asses.

ty john, why is this so hard to see for some people?

A responsible admin can own a gang and even base, I myself have based before in my own gang. The abuse of admin powers is what people would have to worry about, and if we abuse our powers we deserve to be fired. It's all about how mature you can be.

If it were up to me, staff shouldn't even play the game..but then we'd only have 1 or 2 staff left including meeee

Yes, as long as they don't abuse it.

Need to spread rep :(

Does this mean I should quit? :p or does having played PC Era count as "playing" the server xD

Pretty much, though if they can't not abuse for their gang, should just be fired anyway because they can't handle power or situations.

;~;

We wouldn't have any potential staff either.

Never known you to be a base taker mate.

I don't play Era, but it's pretty much the same community anyway so it might relate. Since I've been staff on Classic I've seen a lot of other members come and go. At the beginning, all of the new staff seemed to place as much priority on 'making a guild' as they did in setting their outfit. It's clear that there was a culture of 'omg I'm in an admin guild' and 'I am staff, now I can get people to join my guild' and that is wrong. We don't allow people to create guilds on their staff accounts for this reason, and the idea of 'admin guilds' has seemed to dissolve because of it. However, there are still issues if I'm honest.

Staff are able to create guilds on their (less revered) player accounts and that is fine. You may be aware that I have one on Classic myself. You will not be allowed to run a successful guild that is in the limelight if you're staff though, at least, not without claims of favoritism, bias or corruption. Members of your guild may also feel like you are a private channel for dealing with staff issues too. Although mine do not, I have been accused of stuff like this myself and it's just silly when you haven't actually done anything.

In some cases the 'favoritism' complaint can be true though. Managing players and managing your own social group will often have conflicts of interest. It really just depends on the person who is dealing with it, but it is difficult on an inherently social game like Graal. I personally don't think it is wise to even attempt leading a guild while you're staff. I told my guild that I am focusing on staff work after we had achieved what we wanted to achieve, and I am going to do that for this very reason. It's too hard to be a player and staff without there being overlaps. If your guild does achieve something in the game, you don't want it to be attributed to 'staff powers' when it never was.

tl;dr Staff should make a conscious choice to not lead a guild. For the sake of their own integrity, if nothing else.

They've owned gangs in the past, why not?

Your comment wasn't aimed at just base taking :p

Well I've seen Alpho base using his admin account..

Sadly Graal Iphone seems to have become a culture of being an Admin is the "End Game" goal as opposed to the content..
Guess we should show players that being Staff is 100% more boring than being a player aha.

ooo I smell a quest idea. lol

We can make everyone staff so they can see how boring it is :)

see, said this would be a good debate. even if the poll is skewed a bit by admins lol

I see what Killa is saying and I agree. I used to base and I saw admins abusing their power just to help their buddys get to the flag. I don't agree with it and if admins truly want to base, let them use their ipod account with no staff advantages. Simple.

How can a poll be skewed by admins lol.. theres only 40-50 admins in total for Iera, and unlikely all use the forums

because most admins are bias for the right to own a guild, and alot voted. there are alot of admins on this forum, maybe more active than most normal users (even if they didnt leave a comment). puh-lz.

If more admins than players voted, clearly your community doesn't really care about it lol

i said alot voted. not more, take away all the admin votes, and even if its still more for yes, its alot more accurate.

& this brings up another point in this thread, an admin's influence.

maybe admins should just let players play the game, and admins be admins and administrate. (and if you think its boring, dont be an admin, and just be a player)

there done.

My position was always around this basis, I've always believed we are too involved in the game itself.

Back in the day when era first came out, admins never even created gangs on their staff account, the only "admin" gang we had back then was probably Canavi. Now a days it seems to be a new admins first priority to create a gang on their staff account and instantly start recruiting their friends. I feel like admins should only be allowed to create gangs on their iDevices. I see no REAL reason why an admin needs to have a gang owned by their staff. For example, HW's old gang Pink; so many issues were brought up because she would use her staff account to base with her gang and her staff account pretty much had an endless supply of basing items (nades, heals, etc), and that pretty much meant that any base that Pink held was impossible to take because the second you entered the room, you were spammed with nades. I honestly see no reason why a PR would need to own a basing gang on their staff. Social gangs tend to be less of a problem because most of the time the members of social admin gangs are just in there so that they can kiss ass to the admin who owns it and try to get free items. There really is no real reason a staff member needs to own a gang on their staff accounts, their priority and focus should be to do their job that they were hired to do.

Well alot of the big-wigs feel the same, soooo..your the admins, do something about it.

As long as they don't abuse powers then it's fine for them to have a gang.

@homopanda

Not quite. Hw ios account is purple moon and she owns candy. Purple has nearly a endless amount of heals and nades gas etc. not much changed.

Before I was staff, I had 6000 burgers.
That's enough to handle a base for a year.

6000 burgers is not enough to handle a base for a year....LOL....unless you're basing like 10 minutes a day.
i went through 3000 hotdog's in like 2-3 weeks.

because her staff account has access to an endless supply of heals and items.....i already stated that.

Well sure? As long as they aren't pulling any 300x 300 pixels shotgun while they are basing.

only if they're willing to put up with gang-based spam about asking for a recruit

Hes kinda right, im not against staff gangs but im against stuff they use in base. For example all admins who base use sabers gas guns etc

Unlimited grenades, that is what she would do. Homeless witch would use unlimited grenades to gaurd doors and she always had an un-released gun, but like others said aaron doesn't respond. Actually, auron blocked me.

I should have rephrased this poll to:

" should an admin be allowed to actively compete against normal players?"

that's really the question within the question. 2nd account or not. Because that's where the abuse comes in.

And I saw that 99% guy basing WITH admin account under Londeso tag earlier today and reported. Then he quickly removed...sigh.

I did see that report and was going to follow it up, someone said something about basing with gold ap, though he was afk and no gold ap when I got there so all seemed okay. He probably just forgot.

We can't actually drop any items other than EC.
Shouldn't be any reason for her to have more than a standard character unless shes on for the spam of freebies etc

Well they would have been normal players at one time and some would eventually go back to being normal players so stopping them doing things like that is a bit unfair.

they should be one or the other.

Uh, no. No they should not.
Does that mean if we hire you, you'll quit being a player and reset your account?
People still wish to progress on their accounts, if they don't play, they'll be miles behind on content.

On the one hand, they're normal players. Why shouldn't they be allowed to own a gang?

On the other hand, they may spend more time on their gang than on their admin-job.

I think if they don't abuse their powers, everything will be fine.

I don't want to be an admin. And I never said they need to"reset" their account. But they should focus on being one of the other. Becuz they should. Being both and still playing competitively is what causes abuse.

focus on keeping the game fair and balanced rather than worrying about your own stats, accomplishments, your own gang. Etc.

Isn't that what an admin is for? Or do people just become an admin for fame and power, and an advantage against others....

Eras admins just wanna be famous thats all