Graalians - About King Of The Hill.

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- - About King Of The Hill. (https://www.graalians.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2229)

Quote:

Posted by NYN (Post 40281)

We're gonna go with what people in feedback say about this. So far most people love it. It might just stay.

First off, don't prove adminstrators false because they know the graal town people more than you do so thats first a bold statement from the admin himself, NYN

I would also like to quote post #103 from the opposing side of KoTH, Pazx himself

Quote:

Posted by Pazx (Post 40525)

I've come across very few people who like it :)

This is a self quote from Pazx himself.

Quote #110 (Mr Froggy)

Quote:

Posted by mr froggy (Post 40653)

Gosh pazx cant you see we all love KOTH its you against like 20 other people i think we win pazx, KOTH FTW!!!!

This was before mr Froggy continued support of opposing against KOTH

Quote #115 (Pazx) a

Quote:

First, it's slow. I hate the fact that the attackers (assuming the number of attackers is less than the number of defenders) run in, kill the defenders, then wait a minute for the defenders to come back in to find the flag only dropped to 180, then kill the defenders who in that time will have boosted the flag up to 210, then you just have a little bit more idling around the flag, then kill them, then wait, then kill them, then wait, then probably die a few times. When there are more attackers than defenders, the flag still ticks over so slowly, it just starts earlier as soon as there are more attackers than defenders.

The words "First, its slow" is declared a personal opinion.
"Flag still ticks over so slowly" can be replied against
Reply: Flag can still be replenished by slashing it. No need to judge by size

Quote #115 b

Quote:

It think KotH reduces the advantage defending has always had. In my opinion, it's meant to be easier to defend than to attack, and if the speed which the flag decreases increased with the ratio of attackers:defenders (which would please me otherwise) it would throw out that balance even more.

words bolded negates the argument completely. It is indeed an opinion
Opinion =/= argument

Quote #115 c

Quote:

It's quantity over quality with KotH. It allows large groups to control forts while small ones struggle. If KotH was meant to allow newer guilds to take forts (as some people have mentioned I believe), it certainly doesn't serve that purpose as they have no chance against large groups of defenders.

Decision by size is considered false. Quality can still overcome Quantity in some ways possible.

Quote #115 d

Quote:

One of the most enjoyable parts of Graal in my (and several others's) opinion is defending or attacking forts in small groups and still coming out on top. This doesn't happen with KotH. It's so frustrating you're defending and there's just a few more attackers than defenders who just run around the flag while it drops. Same goes when you're attacking, trying to kill the hordes of defenders and by the time you've killed enough for the flag to start dropping they're already coming back.

words bolded negates the argument completely. It is indeed an opinion
Opinion =/= argument

Quote #116 (skits)

Quote:

First of all, i agree completely with Pazx's opinion. King of The Hill not only has no place on the classic server, but , contrary to what most admins and non-tower takers think, is generally not liked by those of us who actually take towers on a regular basis.

argument is completely negated. argument cannot be focused on professional players only

Quote #116 B

Quote:

i understand going with what people say they like, obviously. but what youve got to also take into account is the fact that people who never take towers ( ie. people in social, school, roleplay, or other such guilds) outnumber the people who do. and many of those people are just going to vote yes because lets face it, half of them hope any agreement with admins will lead to them becomeing one. what i mean to say by all this is that people who aren't affected by King of The Hill, or at least hardly affected are voting the most for it.

argument is completely negated. argument cannot be focused on professional players only. argument cannot be a direct attack to a non supporting/opposing group not related to the argument

Quote #116 C

Quote:

King of the hill promotes noob recruiting. i know that isn't really an issue point from an admin standpoint, but from a tower taker one it is. as is demonstrated by a LOT of people who focus on building their stats, quality is valued. Azrael also said that he thought king of the hill would promote an active elite group of tower takers. it would do the exact opposite.

Quote:

Lol! I agree 100% with what you said Maikeru! One thing though, i don't see how it caters to quantity over quality at all. Say there is 10 people in the flag room and only 5 people are attacking, these "quality" players could easily kill 2 people each which would give them the tower. It's more so about quality over quantity in my opinion, because you need to kill a lot of people instead of slashing a flag continuously in large groups. I also notice everyone against KotH is using this complete BS excuse for the fans by saying they don't even take towers. I'm sorry, but if someone is concerned with KotH or has an opinion about it they obviously take towers from time to time. Pazx, you are not some elite tower taker who's opinion trumps all of us peasants' views. If the majority of the people you are speaking to at the moment like it, obviously people like it.

Supporting quote is from Yephenpeace himself

Quote #126 (Skits)

Quote:

in the current KoTH system, both the defenders and attacks respawn outside. NOT in the flag room. i wasn't trying to say anything about whether or not that's a good or bad thing or whether it makes forts harder, i was simply correcting a post azrael made saying that you did respawn in flag room on KoTH, which is untrue.

honestly, your ignorance on this fact just goes further to prove that you dont use KoTH enough to really pretend to be the expert here.

Top half statement in consideration: "both the defenders and attackers respawn outside"
Reply: Statement is not a problem
argument is completely negated. argument cannot be focused on professional players only. argument cannot be a direct attack to a non supporting/opposing group not related to the argument

Quote #126 B

Quote:

- promotes "noob recruiting"
-Quantity ( i think we've reiterated this one quite enough)
-slowness of flag health counter decrease

Main problems with KoTH defending
-again, noob recruiting
-quantity
-slowness of flag healing
-activity

Statement in Consideration: Noob recruiting
Consideration: Negated. Considered a Direct attack against a non supporting/opposing group

Statement in consideration: slowness of flag healing/decrease
Consideration: Statement is not a problem

Statement in consideration: activity
Consideration: Statement maybe a problem

Repost of Quote #128 (Maikeru)

Quote:

My Honest Opinion:
King of the Hill seems like a nice addition and so far i don't see any members complaining other than the ones on this topic. There has been guilds who still take guild forts with King of the Hill and they still catch up to 1000 hours and claim their hats. I don't see why people complain about it but honestly, i don't think that there are guilds thats not trying.

Maybe the feel on taking guild forts is not the same... Maybe Castle and Snow's difficulty for some guilds have been bumped up... Idk but in the majority of what we're seeing so far, people like it... and it hasn't past a year... So take time to get used to it...

And if your opinion remains the same, then be more than free to email classic some feedback on it. This topic has been nothing but a scribbled contract set in flames

Heres a few suggestions you can feedback if you want to:
-Have Castle's defenders respawn at the fountain or the bottom of the castle
-Have Snow's defenders respawn at the middle of the entrance room
-Have Castle/Snow excluded from King of The Hill
-Maybe add a tower exclusively to King of The Hill (and the others excluded)
-Any other suggestion that improves King of The Hill

Thank you Pazx,Serenity, and Skits for your honest suggestions but i don't want to bother wasting your time seeing as this argument can last on and on permanently till we're all blue in the face. If you just don't like it, please Feedback some suggestions to improve it or honest reasons why you don't like it.

I can argue here as long as i want to but its best to set a main point straight and get this over with. And im not mad at all. I just find it a bit annoying on how some points is all about how "Slow" and how "Stupid" King of the Hill is with no reasonable statements.

You can't blame King of the Hill for what it is and that if you can't accept what King of the Hill is, just feedback it. I should've just said it as this from the very beginning instead of having to cram my points through your heads.

Here ^_^ :
http://www.graalians.com/forums/show...1037#post41037
I created the King of the Hill topic (seeing as this one has been flamed sort of).
If anyone wants to leave a suggestion,complaint,question,or improvement regarding King of the Hill, please post it here. Don't spam/flame please.
-Maikeru

Its considered a repost for statement
Opposing group has voted in poll
Results of December 16 2011 were 18-8 on the fact that it shall be improved rather than removed

Quote #132 (EP)

Quote:

I dislike it as well king of the hill is more favorable for those who noob recruit i remember before me and pauli would be able to hold castle for a good while an now if u get outnumbered they just run around flagroom and your sure to lose it.
King of the hill is a nice idea but they can change it up make it 1 king of the hill tower but a random tower everyday changes to king of the hill

Statement is considered a direct attack against a non supporting/opposing group. Statement is negated

Quote #136 (Santa Claus)

Quote:

I don't really like it because sometimes the guild attacking will go in and have some outside to block the doors and they end up getting the tower by cheating.
Plus the people that are there for the pks are more annoying.

Statement in Consideration: tower cheating/blocking
Consideration: could be a problem

Quote #150 from Pazx

Quote:

>1 room where kills count
What. The. Hell. If you're gonna try and prove a point, you might as well check whether you're correct or not, it's not that hard. And snowtown is just as easy to take. In fact, it's easier to take Snow in some situations now.

conflicted upon own opposing statement

Quote:

On top of all that, Castle and Snow were two very basic yet unique forts, and now all the forts are complex because of how the way you played at Castle and Snow has changed.

Opposing person has negated self statement

Quote #153 (Supporting [DrDoctor])

Quote:

If you don't like KOTH then don't use those towers. People who dislike KOTH can go to the three other towers left "normal". Why should the fun be ruined for people who like KOTH just because some of the players don't want to walk up the castle steps.

I like the KOTH towers because the guilds can't afk and keep control like they used to.

Supporting quote is declared an acceptable statement against the opposing team

Quote #154 (Supporting [Izarin])

Quote:

staff say that people on iClassic support it more than not. So..... They're not going to make a new tower for only one KOTH. They're not going to make it only Facebook server. Deal with the cards your dealt and go to the other towers. No problem

Supporting quote is declared an acceptable statement against the opposing team

Inflicting Quote #155 from Pazx

Quote:

What are you, dense? Are you ******ed or something? I AM THE GOD DAMN KING OF THE CASTLE. I know my stuff.

Kills still count in the room outside the flagroom numbnutz. You just don't spawn somewhere else. Thats like saying kills don't count on the overworld because you spawn where you die.

Snowtown was always easy, is still easy. Harder in some situations, easier in some thanks to KotH. Also, skating around while slashing the flag is rather difficult most the time.

Boasting Top statement is not considered part of the statement. completely negated
conflicted upon opposing own statement

Quote:

On top of all that, Castle and Snow were two very basic yet unique forts, and now all the forts are complex because of how the way you played at Castle and Snow has changed.

Opposing person has negated self statement

Quote #162 (Opposing[Mr Froggy])

Quote:

Even without KOTH its still very difficult to hold castle or snow for weeks.

statement declares KOTH still feels the same
statement is now used against opposing team

Quote #163 (Supporting[DrDoctor])

Quote:

Do I have to be much clearer? There are three towers which have the regular system in effect and you can use those three towers while we use the two towers that have KOTH. So I don't see why you need to eliminate KOTH because there are two towers that have it. If I started a thread asking for KOTH on all the towers you would disagree entirely but here you are asking the same thing but with a different system.

Face it, KOTH is going to stay and there's nothing wrong with variety

Supporting quote is declared an acceptable statement against the opposing team

Quote #173 (Opposing[mr froggy])

Quote:

Of course the people that hardly touch these forts get to decide lmao.

False statement is considered a direct attack against a supporting group. Statement negated

Quote #181 from Pazx

Quote:

Once VG and CoM and CJ and AGK retire, wipe the scores and give them all statues (and PULSE). Maybe even go down through PS, NAL, SoS, etc.

Statement directly attacks non supporting/opposing groups. Completely negated

Conclusion: The opposing team's statements/arguments has been considerly addressed against Direct attack, agreement of KOTH, Opinion and Professionalism.

The Supporting team statements/arguments has been considerly addressed against Variety, Opinion, Direct attack, agreement of KOTH, and agreement for newbies/players/veterans

Final answer: KOTH should not be removed.
KOTH should be tweaked/stayed till conflicted heavily by a worthy amount of players

Suggestions: KOTH should be tweaked according to the following statements
-Glitching/Cheating
-KOTH ticking system
-Blocking entrances

Player Suggestions:
-New KOTH Fort

Supporting team has won the case in which some of the opposing team agreed that people liked it.
Case closed :)
-Maikeru

Quote:

Posted by mr froggy (Post 58709)

Oh thankyou that solves all our problems, very original. :)

Original or not, it does solve the problem.

Just because one group of people dislike something doesn't mean it should be removed. It's clear that there are people whom enjoy KotH, and that's reason enough to me for it to stay.

Don't play on KotH forts; no reason to complain about KotH.

Quote:

Posted by Maikeru (Post 58713)

Lets begin.
Supporting team: NYN, 8bit1000, Bam, Yephenpeace, Cat612, Chelterrar, DrDoctor, Higbey, Izarin, Kyro122, Madhog, Maikeru, Mij, Mr.$imons, P.i, sebbel, Shaun, Shmegg, Xavier, CrossCross, Gambit Drakul (21)
Opposing team: Froggy Krueger, Ike, Koolaid, mr froggy, Pazx, Shadow, Skitz, TylerMysTe, EP (9)
Subject: Removing KOTH
Supporting Team: It should stay or be improved
Opposing Team: It should be removed

I would like to first quote post #94 of Moderator, NYN

First off, don't prove adminstrators false because they know the graal town people more than you do so thats first a bold statement from the admin himself, NYN

I would also like to quote post #103 from the opposing side of KoTH, Pazx himself

This is a self quote from Pazx himself.

Quote #110 (Mr Froggy)

This was before mr Froggy continued support of opposing against KOTH

Quote #115 (Pazx) a

The words "First, its slow" is declared a personal opinion.
"Flag still ticks over so slowly" can be replied against
Reply: Flag can still be replenished by slashing it. No need to judge by size

Quote #115 b

words bolded negates the argument completely. It is indeed an opinion
Opinion =/= argument

Quote #115 c

Decision by size is considered false. Quality can still overcome Quantity in some ways possible.

Quote #115 d

words bolded negates the argument completely. It is indeed an opinion
Opinion =/= argument

Quote #116 (skits)

argument is completely negated. argument cannot be focused on professional players only

Quote #116 B

argument is completely negated. argument cannot be focused on professional players only. argument cannot be a direct attack to a non supporting/opposing group not related to the argument

Quote #116 C

argument is completely negated. argument cannot be focused on professional players only. argument cannot be a direct attack to a non supporting/opposing group not related to the argument

Supporting Quote #118 from Yephenpeace

Supporting quote is from Yephenpeace himself

Quote #126 (Skits)

Top half statement in consideration: "both the defenders and attackers respawn outside"
Reply: Statement is not a problem
argument is completely negated. argument cannot be focused on professional players only. argument cannot be a direct attack to a non supporting/opposing group not related to the argument

Quote #126 B

Statement in Consideration: Noob recruiting
Consideration: Negated. Considered a Direct attack against a non supporting/opposing group

Statement in consideration: slowness of flag healing/decrease
Consideration: Statement is not a problem

Statement in consideration: activity
Consideration: Statement maybe a problem

Repost of Quote #128 (Maikeru)

Its considered a repost for statement
Opposing group has voted in poll
Results of December 16 2011 were 18-8 on the fact that it shall be improved rather than removed

Quote #132 (EP)

Statement is considered a direct attack against a non supporting/opposing group. Statement is negated

Quote #136 (Santa Claus)

Statement in Consideration: tower cheating/blocking
Consideration: could be a problem

Quote #150 from Pazx

conflicted upon own opposing statement

Opposing person has negated self statement

Quote #153 (Supporting [DrDoctor])

Supporting quote is declared an acceptable statement against the opposing team

Quote #154 (Supporting [Izarin])

Supporting quote is declared an acceptable statement against the opposing team

Inflicting Quote #155 from Pazx

Boasting Top statement is not considered part of the statement. completely negated
conflicted upon opposing own statement

Opposing person has negated self statement

Quote #162 (Opposing[Mr Froggy])

statement declares KOTH still feels the same
statement is now used against opposing team

Quote #163 (Supporting[DrDoctor])

Supporting quote is declared an acceptable statement against the opposing team

Quote #173 (Opposing[mr froggy])

False statement is considered a direct attack against a supporting group. Statement negated

Quote #181 from Pazx

Statement directly attacks non supporting/opposing groups. Completely negated

Conclusion: The opposing team's statements/arguments has been considerly addressed against Direct attack, agreement of KOTH, Opinion and Professionalism.

The Supporting team statements/arguments has been considerly addressed against Variety, Opinion, Direct attack, agreement of KOTH, and agreement for newbies/players/veterans

Final answer: KOTH should not be removed.
KOTH should be tweaked/stayed till conflicted heavily by a worthy amount of players

Suggestions: KOTH should be tweaked according to the following statements
-Glitching/Cheating
-KOTH ticking system
-Blocking entrances

Player Suggestions:
-New KOTH Fort

Supporting team has won the case in which some of the opposing team agreed that people liked it.
Case closed :)
-Maikeru

Thanks for making it as small as possible for us... XD

Quote:

Posted by Skyzer (Post 58714)

Read my previous post just under that. :)

I enjoy reading this :)

Lolz micheal pwned pazx >:) srry but he did

Quote:

Posted by Maikeru (Post 58705)

Don't ever claim yourself a winner. Its the others opinions to judge

10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

"opinions"

Completely negated.

Quote:

Reply: Flag can still be replenished by slashing it.

Actually, it can't. That was the whole point of KotH. You can't attack the flag. Why do you not understand this? We've been arguing about KotH for ages, I thought you would have at least done your research.

Now, if I were to remove the words "In my opinion" from my previous arguments, how would you respond to them?

You can't ask "What do you dislike about KotH?" and then say "Nope, doesn't count, because it's your opinion". Furthermore I like how you ignore the fact that you ignore the fact that Yephenpeace and DrDoctor offered their own opinion which you instantly accepted as evidence.

You also seem to be horribly confused stating this or similar to this several times:

Quote:

conflicted upon own opposing statement

No. This seems to lie in with your "peepl r stil geting 1k hatz1!!!" We know that, it has nothing to do with our arguments whatsoever.

If you were to rewrite that post, giving a proper response to each argument, I would take you seriously.

Quote:

Posted by Pazx (Post 58914)

10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

"opinions"

Completely negated.

Actually, it can't. That was the whole point of KotH. You can't attack the flag. Why do you not understand this? We've been arguing about KotH for ages, I thought you would have at least done your research.

Now, if I were to remove the words "In my opinion" from my previous arguments, how would you respond to them?

You can't ask "What do you dislike about KotH?" and then say "Nope, doesn't count, because it's your opinion". Furthermore I like how you ignore the fact that you ignore the fact that Yephenpeace and DrDoctor offered their own opinion which you instantly accepted as evidence.

You also seem to be horribly confused stating this or similar to this several times:

No. This seems to lie in with your "peepl r stil geting 1k hatz1!!!" We know that, it has nothing to do with our arguments whatsoever.

If you were to rewrite that post, giving a proper response to each argument, I would take you seriously.

stop bitching he made a far better argument then you would ever make, and maybe to your low intelligence brain it didn't make sence, but to me and im sure some others it did

Ok, once again I want to +rep Maikeru... but I can't, so all I have to say is... Well done, sir!

Coul someone close this already? It is clear Higb- I mean Maikeru won.

Quote:

Posted by Pazx (Post 58914)

But the flag can be replenished so Either way, theres no difference. KotH is staying either way. The adminstrators gets to decide and so far in their experience (which btw is more experience than yours), they know there are players that love KotH. Those who oppose it (using the pieces of evidence) should realize that there are 3 other towers. Castle and snowtown being KotH does not mean its the end of the world.. If you don't like king of the hill, then go play in one of the three other towers. You don't need to be playing just those two castles.

Quote:

Now, if I were to remove the words "In my opinion" from my previous arguments, how would you respond to them?

Simple. First, you said its slow and that it ticks over time. Theres nothing wrong with that. I understand that you just want to rush in till you get the flag and be the hero with the flag. Every guild member should consist of at least 3-4 members when getting any flag. Theres no denying about that. Second, it prevents direct takedown in tower taking, which to be honest, is a problem with some players because they don't want to lose their flag in just seconds but mostly like within 15-30 minutes

Second, your friend Skits said that both players respawn and thats a problem. This pretty much was a request from most attackers because if defenders can never leave the room, they can slash the flag back into full health in just seconds, which made it unfair to some players. also it promotes your way of tower taking: Rushing. Gives you the higher chance to get the flag

Quote:

You can't ask "What do you dislike about KotH?" and then say "Nope, doesn't count, because it's your opinion". Furthermore I like how you ignore the fact that you ignore the fact that Yephenpeace and DrDoctor offered their own opinion which you instantly accepted as evidence.

I asked you that question a couple times and all you went was "You're rude! You lose! I think voting poll should be on!" and when i tried to re-post the poll, i found 3 accounts on the same date with the same/almost same activity date (10:37,10:53,10:55) and 0 posts.. You told me it was 3 different people but i find that a lie

Quote:

You also seem to be horribly confused stating this or similar to this several times

No. This seems to lie in with your "peepl r stil geting 1k hatz1!!!" We know that, it has nothing to do with our arguments whatsoever.

You pretty much stated that snowtown is hard then you said its easy. Make up your mind please

Quote:

If you were to rewrite that post, giving a proper response to each argument, I would take you seriously.

Sorry but this game or this KotH wasn't made for professional spar players. Graal Classic was made specifically to all types of players. If you can't accept that fact, just pack your bags and leave, because everyone hates people who pick on others in both the forum and in the game just because they can't accept an update.

King of the Hill, in my opinion, is fun and brings a new challenge to players. While some may not enjoy it, others do. We don't need to remove it just because you or someone has a problem with it. If you don't like it, there are 3 other towers you could play usually as you do. No need to come here with some professional attitude thinking you're the king of this game and you know best. Admins have seen the results and they know that players like King of the Hill.

You lose sir. You can keep talking on this topic but nothings going to happen till an admin closes a thread because you just dislike this update. You're gonna have to get used to this kind of stuff.

Now im going to stop discussing on this topic (and so should other people) because this has been nothing more than just a topic about a group of so called professional players that hate an update which btw has been liked by most players.

Some may opposed to it or some may hate it but your votes are completely outnumbered by those who accept it or like it. Theres three other towers without KotH. Don't like king of the hill? Then go to one of those three towers.

The only thing they can do with KotH is tweak it according to some suggestions people made according to the 21-11 poll in my improvement/suggestion thread regarding KotH
Case closed
-Maikeru

I gave up because I know they will keep complaining for it to be removed. Ironically if you had spent as much time adjusting to the koth towers as you spent on this thread you'd probably dominate at it. No one is saying koth is perfect. A lot of the things like noob recruiting is a problem with the guild system itself, not Koth.

Just pretend the Snow fort and castle are gone if it makes you feel better, and I'll pretend all those places selling graphics are actually quests.

I could protest against prices being too high, could probably come up with a better argument for it, the majority of graal would agree with me. Doesn't mean Stefan will change it.

Its not going to change. Your being ignored. Its hard to accept, I know, but if people start hating Koth or they make all towers Koth then maybe you should try again, but as for now, just let it go. Ive had to do this many times, sure you don't need to pretend to like it, and you can still dislike Koth, but as for now it's not changing.

Hopefully this clears this up. Maybe a mod could lock this and when something new about it is changed the thread should be released again to discuss it.

Quote:

Posted by Higbey (Post 59015)

Why because you know we won? XD

Again where not looking for advice, if your sick of this thread why the hell are you still here we dont have any bussiness with anyone arguing here. Its highly likely none of you spend as much time as me and pazx at these forts. Half the people here probably only farm and suck up to admins in the hope youll be admin to.

Quote:

Posted by mr froggy (Post 59028)

not true actually, i spend a lot of time at forts with Advent V, KOTH does not bother me.

Quote:

Posted by mr froggy (Post 38249)

ill give u 10 gralats if u take it away asap thanks admins, wuv u <3

whos the suck up now?
and were sick of YOU pretending your the know-it-all super experienced Graal player, and you started all the arguments yourself...

Quote:

Posted by Airspitter (Post 59035)

not true actually, i spend a lot of time at forts with Advent V, KOTH does not bother me.

3 minutes dosnt count. Im getting that time from your stats, how can you be spending so much time defending these towers and yet only have what like 3k kills.

Quote:

whos the suck up now?
and were sick of YOU pretending your the know-it-all super experienced Graal player, and you started all the arguments yourself...

Oh really I had know idea, that could be the reason im still arguing over it.

But Higbey, those are quests...

...:OOOO

Quote:

Posted by mr froggy (Post 59039)

3 minutes dosnt count.

Oh really I had know idea, that could be the reason im still arguing over it.

and im not trying to be a **** but maybe fix your spelling a bit?