Graalians - USA Presidential Elections 2016

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Posted by Ivy (Post 697872)

You seem to be forgetting that rape is also a factor.

No, I already said that in a previous post. I also included health of mother, and incest.

I honestly can not stand people that think abortion should be illegal. Not only is that stripping a woman of the right to have control over her own body and life, but it will also force women to go through dangerous processes to get abortions. You think making it illegal is going to stop women from trying anyway? Making drugs illegal doesn't stop addicts. Making stealing illegal doesn't stop thieves. It's going to happen anyway and it's going to seriously injure or kill a lot of people, including the babies that end up being born anyway after attempted abortions.

Babies are a lot of work and cost a lot of money. They can screw up a lot of lives and saying "well you knew what you were getting into when you did the dirty" is bull. We aren't animals where we live to reproduce and have kids that grow into adults and move on with their own lives in a year or so. Sex is a part of human nature and you can't basically tell people that "if they don't want kids they shouldn't do that". That is really, honestly, idiotic. We are an evolved and intelligent species and if we don't want to spend 18+ years of our lives taking care of children then we damn well should be able to choose not to.

I do however agree with having restrictions that already exist such as not being allowed to have an abortion after 6 months. If the woman chooses to go through with a pregnancy and then changes her mind 6 months later, then yeah it's too late. That makes sense and is fair since you have 6 freaking months to figure that out. But there still should be exceptions obviously if the woman's life is in danger or if they find out the baby isn't going to make it. I read and article about a woman who found out that her baby was dying and she was going to miscarry, but since it was too late in the pregnancy she couldn't abort it, so she had to keep carrying her baby and wait for it to die and miscarry on it's own. I mean what the actual ****?
Sort of unrelated, I also once read a story about a little girl (like 10 or something) that was raped and got pregnant couldn't get an abortion because it was illegal in her state or something. I'm not 100% sure but if this was actually true then wtf.

TL;DR: This whole pro-life pro-choice thing is insane. It's not up to anyone else what a woman wants to do. It's her body, her pregnancy, and if she doesn't want to have a kid, no matter the circumstance, she should be allowed to decide that. Not someone else.

All I'm going to say is that if you sleep with somebody then you are at risk of becoming a mother/father. Even if you use protection/take birth control, you are still risking it.

The main point of sex in nature is to reproduce. If you're going to try to dance around that then you are putting you and the other person at risk. That's how I see it.

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Posted by Coco (Post 697880)

TL;DR: This whole pro-life pro-choice thing is insane. It's not up to anyone else what a woman wants to do. It's her body, her pregnancy, and if she doesn't want to have a kid, no matter the circumstance, she should be allowed to decide that. Not someone else.

What about if the man wants to keep it? Even if it's her body, it's the man's child as well. I don't think it should just be the woman's decision. Sex involves two people, not one.

Also, I can't stand women who say "it's not fair, why me, why was I unlucky" because they are the ones putting themselves at risk and nobody else. She took
those chances and if the odds were against her then that's just how the cookie crumbles.

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Posted by Coco (Post 697880)

but it will also force women to go through dangerous processes to get abortions.

This is exactly why abortion shouldn't be made illegal. Ultimately, if the pill is made unavailable, they will get bad medical procedures from shady doctors.

I realize that the whole "robbing the baby of life" argument is there. But if people are still going to be attempting abortion, which they will, then they need to be able to do it in the safest way possible. There is no sense in forcing people to do very dangerous procedures just because we don't agree with their actions.

As Coco said, it's their body and their life.

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Posted by Coco (Post 697880)

Spoiler

Just as you think illegalizing abortion strips the rights of the woman, I believe if strips the rights of the baby. There's a good saying: Your rights end where another's begins. Sex is part of human nature. Having a baby is also a part of human nature, reproduction from sex is human nature. I don't actually know this and thought about researching it but I don't have the time right now, so I'll ask if anyone knows. Does a father have a say in whether the mother gets an abortion or not, legally speaking? For you saying people do drugs even though it's illegal. You also said people steal, even though it's illegal. Does that mean stealing should be made legal since people do it anyways? People murder, even though it's illegal. I still think murder should be illegal. I do think it's absurd to require someone to have the miscarriage if they know the baby is going to die. That's far too traumatizing on the mother. I don't understand why people don't consider the baby in the equation. It's the mother who has to carry the baby, but it's the baby that dies. I think the scale leans on the baby's side in that situation. It's a delicate thing, and there have to be reasonable, specific exceptions. The mother needs to be taken into consideration, but the baby does too. People attack others for being pro-life, even though all they're doing is thinking about the baby and the mother, rather than just the mother.

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Posted by CM (Post 697890)

What about if the man wants to keep it? Even if it's her body, it's the man's child as well. I don't think it should just be the woman's decision. Sex involves two people, not one.

Then that's for them to discuss. I'm not saying it can't be talked about, I'm saying it shouldn't be totally illegal so that the woman doesn't have a choice.

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Posted by CM (Post 697890)

Also, I can't stand women who say "it's not fair, why me, why was I unlucky" because they are the ones putting themselves at risk and nobody else. She took
those chances and if the odds were against her then that's just how the cookie crumbles.

women shouldn't be forced to have a child whether they know the risks or not. Some women are naive and some know exactly what they're risking but they should still be able to choose. It really isn't fair if they don't have a choice.

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Posted by Coco (Post 697880)

I agree with the abortion stance, I just wanted to highlight this to make a parallel for any super gun-control freaks out there who might be lurking.

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Posted by Areo (Post 697895)

Why should something be legal just because people will still do it? That argument baffles me. Doctors will lose their medical license if they perform abortions if it's made illegal, just like they would for any other thing right now. The whole point of illegalizing abortion is because the mother's shouldn't be doing it (with exceptions), so to say they'll still do it as the argument, doesn't put much power behind your statement. As I said, people still murder, but it's still illegal, for very good reasons. We are intelligent and intellectually capable of far more than other animals, which is why we should be more aware and considerate towards other lives, that being the baby.

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Posted by Coco (Post 697898)

It really isn't fair if they don't have a choice.

They do have a choice - just don't have sex!

Obviously they will still have sex since women are human and have desires, but if a women is certain that having a child will ruin her life then maybe she just shouldn't risk it in the first place.

It's the same reason that people say teenagers should not be having sex since if they get pregnant or get somebody else pregnant their lives can go down the drain quickly.

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Posted by Coco (Post 697898)

Then that's for them to discuss. I'm not saying it can't be talked about, I'm saying it shouldn't be totally illegal so that the woman doesn't have a choice.

women shouldn't be forced to have a child whether they know the risks or not. Some women are naive and some know exactly what they're risking but they should still be able to choose. It really isn't fair if they don't have a choice.

You can't smoke cigarettes and then say you don't want to get cancer from it. Cancer is a very probably possibility from the action of smoking. The same goes with sex and having a baby. If you have sex, there are consequences that may occur, and you have to face them, you can't simply run from them and make them not exist.

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Posted by CM (Post 697903)

I also believe fathers should be legally obligated to the child. There's no discriminating against the woman and saying she can't have sex but the guys can. A guy risks the chance of a child just as much as a woman does by having sex, and they should also be obligated to the child.

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Posted by PigParty (Post 697904)

But you can...the question is moral.

It isn't possible to stop negative effects from cigarette smoke, but abortions are indeed possible.

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Posted by PigParty (Post 697904)

If you have sex, there are consequences that may occur, and you have to face them, you can't simply run from them and make them not exist.

You literally can, and it harms nothing but a growth of cells not unlike a tumor.

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Posted by PigParty (Post 697904)

I know, I was just using that as an example since it is ultimately the woman's decision as to what she wants to do to the child.

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Posted by CM (Post 697903)

LMFAO.

Yeah just don't have sex you filthy animals.

ROFL NO FOR REAL, WHAT KIND OF **** ARGUMENT IS THIS???

ABSTINENCE IS ****ING FAKE. REPRESSING HUMAN DESIRES TOTALLY MAKES THINGS ALL GOOD.

Humans don't just have sex to make children, why the hell do you think people do it otherwise???

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Posted by PigParty (Post 697901)

Key word SHADY. It doesn't matter if they lose their medicinal license. They will/can still do the procedure. Or they'll go to another country and circumvent your rules.

People will still have them, so you would rather risk the woman and the child as opposed to just one? No matter what the child will die if she chooses to have an abortion, she shouldn't have to die, or risk death.

You act like people will easily adhere to laws. They won't.