Posted by Aguzo

What? That would greatly affect their income. Those don't even sound like guild activities.
Catching candies from ghosts, or collecting easter eggs are one thing. Events could work.
Looting, and bug catching are another.
Don't see why they would let players gain points from something that is already used to gain gralats. Not to mention that these activities aren't team based.

I find it humorous how somehow in a spar related undertone 'income' is brought up here. Are you just mashing your keyboard without reason? I'm going to disagree with you, here and this time you won't be silently removing me from your own dead guild because you already did so...

When did spar or towering ever generate income for this game? The clear answer would be in relation to content in the game... which... is... exactly what catching candy, looting, easter egg hunts, and catching bugs are.

Providing activities for people to spend time in the game pursuing is what keeps players invested. Incentivizing those activities is what makes them engaging and (sad to say) addictive. I have a feeling the number of people who catch bugs on a regular basis is a lot larger than the number of people who spar on a regular basis (read people as 'CUSTOMERS'). I imagine a certain fraction of players never even find their way to a tower before uninstalling the game... but if they get through the tutorial, they get into the overworld!

One of the main issues with the current/old guild system is that it took players away from a large aspect of the game. In fact 90% of the overworld (if not more) has nothing to do with towering or sparring except as a means of a vast expanse of space with completely separate activities going on between forts and arenas.

Don't get me wrong - these activities are entertaining to some people, but they are not the only players in the game, nor are they any less or more important than the other players. Redesigning the guild system without structure (no mention of reward, notice) of some kind relating to the pursuits of less competitive characters would simply be a mistake in terms of customer service.  

Sounds like you all copying ol west little warning dont do guild points based off of time it ruined basing on ol west.  

Posted by 4-Lom

I find it humorous how somehow in a spar related undertone 'income' is brought up here. Are you just mashing your keyboard without reason? I'm going to disagree with you, here and this time you won't be silently removing me from your own dead guild because you already did so...

I removed you months ago, because you're always attacking the competitive community for the most absurd reasons. I thought you were a pretty cool/mature person, and I even waited to see if this wasn't a habit of yours, but it clearly is.

When did spar or towering ever generate income for this game? The clear answer would be in relation to content in the game... which... is... exactly what catching candy, looting, easter egg hunts, and catching bugs are.

What... Even?

Providing activities for people to spend time in the game pursuing is what keeps players invested. Incentivizing those activities is what makes them engaging and (sad to say) addictive. I have a feeling the number of people who catch bugs on a regular basis is a lot larger than the number of people who spar on a regular basis (read people as 'CUSTOMERS'). I imagine a certain fraction of players never even find their way to a tower before uninstalling the game... but if they get through the tutorial, they get into the overworld!

Are sparring, pking, towering, etc not a part of said "activities"? The new guild system rewards are there for incentivizing these activities... especially towering, which really needs this.

One of the main issues with the current/old guild system is that it took players away from a large aspect of the game. In fact 90% of the overworld (if not more) has nothing to do with towering or sparring except as a means of a vast expanse of space with completely separate activities going on between forts and arenas.

No? The only issue is that there are currently no rewards for the competitive parts of the game (guild-wise). Yes, "90%" the majority of the community isn't always sparring, and what not, which is probably why this update has taken a long time. I believe that with this update, you will see more players participating in activities that they wouldn't have bothered with before.

Don't get me wrong - these activities are entertaining to some people, but they are not the only players in the game, nor are they any less or more important than the other players. Redesigning the guild system without structure (no mention of reward, notice) of some kind relating to the pursuits of less competitive characters would simply be a mistake in terms of customer service.

No one said that the competitive community makes the whole community...
They have focused on how to help players like yourself benefit from the new guild system by allowing guilds to gain points without having to be top 10.

It just seems irrational for TLab to give players guild points for something they already gain gralats from. Is gaining gralats to purchase other items not enough of a reward?

I don't understand why the competitive community can't enjoy an upgrade that has been on hold for more than a year, because you want to also gain points from selling food items or roleplay as a japanese sauna manager.

I have no idea which year you're playing graal in, but from my point of view the main focus has been pumping out hats, items, new houses, and bounty quest equivalent game content for players like yourself to enjoy.  

Posted by Aguzo

Spoiler

I removed you months ago, because you're always attacking the competitive community for the most absurd reasons. I thought you were a pretty cool/mature person, and I even waited to see if this wasn't a habit of yours, but it clearly is.


What... Even?


Are sparring, pking, towering, etc not a part of said "activities"? The new guild system rewards are there for incentivizing these activities... especially towering, which really needs this.



No? The only issue is that there are currently no rewards for the competitive parts of the game (guild-wise). Yes, "90%" the majority of the community isn't always sparring, and what not, which is probably why this update has taken a long time. I believe that with this update, you will see more players participating in activities that they wouldn't have bothered with before.


No one said that the competitive community makes the whole community...
They have focused on how to help players like yourself benefit from the new guild system by allowing guilds to gain points without having to be top 10.

It just seems irrational for TLab to give players guild points for something they already gain gralats from. Is gaining gralats to purchase other items not enough of a reward?

I don't understand why the competitive community can't enjoy an upgrade that has been on hold for more than a year, because you want to also gain points from selling food items or roleplay as a japanese sauna manager.

I have no idea which year you're playing graal in, but from my point of view the main focus has been pumping out hats, items, new houses, and bounty quest equivalent game content for players like yourself to enjoy.

Gotta love ad hominem arguments. I'd respond to your misplaced taunts and jibes, but it's clearly of no use.

Read what I had written again. You contradicted yourself here.

Spoiler

"Are sparring, pking, towering, etc not a part of said "activities"? and I don't understand why the competitive community can't enjoy an upgrade that has been on hold for more than a year, because you want to also gain points from selling food items or roleplay as a japanese sauna manager.

There's no attack going on except your own. Seems the 'competitive community' you speak of is made of folks who like to take everything personally. In my previous post I was expressing that, while rewards are not required (mentioning this a second time here), having a structure to rank the full scale of activities that are undertaken by community members, regardless of their chosen past time, will create a stronger fanbase and, thus, bring in more customers.

TLDR... Don't be a jerk. If people like to catch bugs, shape part of the game around it. If people like to hit each other with swords, shape part of the game around it. It's not rocket science. It's also not a personal slight.  

Posted by 4-Lom

Gotta love ad hominem arguments. I'd respond to your misplaced taunts and jibes, but it's clearly of no use.

Read what I had written again. You contradicted yourself here.

Spoiler

"Are sparring, pking, towering, etc not a part of said "activities"? and I don't understand why the competitive community can't enjoy an upgrade that has been on hold for more than a year, because you want to also gain points from selling food items or roleplay as a japanese sauna manager.

There's no attack going on except your own. Seems the 'competitive community' you speak of is made of folks who like to take everything personally. In my previous post I was expressing that, while rewards are not required (mentioning this a second time here), having a structure to rank the full scale of activities that are undertaken by community members, regardless of their chosen past time, will create a stronger fanbase and, thus, bring in more customers.

TLDR... Don't be a jerk. If people like to catch bugs, shape part of the game around it. If people like to hit each other with swords, shape part of the game around it. It's not rocket science. It's also not a personal slight.

If 10 year olds dressed as adults like to adopt 40 year olds dressed as babies then shape part of the game around it. Oh wait, Hah! They already have.  

Posted by 4-Lom

Spoiler

Gotta love ad hominem arguments. I'd respond to your misplaced taunts and jibes, but it's clearly of no use.

Read what I had written again. You contradicted yourself here.

Spoiler

"Are sparring, pking, towering, etc not a part of said "activities"? and I don't understand why the competitive community can't enjoy an upgrade that has been on hold for more than a year, because you want to also gain points from selling food items or roleplay as a japanese sauna manager.

There's no attack going on except your own. Seems the 'competitive community' you speak of is made of folks who like to take everything personally. In my previous post I was expressing that, while rewards are not required (mentioning this a second time here), having a structure to rank the full scale of activities that are undertaken by community members, regardless of their chosen past time, will create a stronger fanbase and, thus, bring in more customers.

TLDR... Don't be a jerk. If people like to catch bugs, shape part of the game around it. If people like to hit each other with swords, shape part of the game around it. It's not rocket science. It's also not a personal slight.

I believe dusty was going to make bug catching events where whoever scored highest during a set amount of time would win. Points probably depended on the rarity of each bug.

They limit the amount of spawns, so that the server? doesn't have issues. I'm sure they can add guild points for bug catching, looting, etc, but it doesn't seem smart from my perspective. Those activities seem better off with their own separate systems.

Here is the discussion for the bug leaderboard possibility
http://www.graalians.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27814  

Bug catching xd  

Posted by Aguzo

I believe dusty was going to make bug catching events where whoever scored highest during a set amount of time would win. Points probably depended on the rarity of each bug.

There were trial runs of this... but that seems to be all we heard.  

I just realized something. If the NGS is going to solely focus on the competitive aspects of Graal Classic, does that mean all the cancerous RP guilds will fail to exist whatsoever?  

Posted by Aguzo

I believe dusty was going to make bug catching events where whoever scored highest during a set amount of time would win. Points probably depended on the rarity of each bug.

They limit the amount of spawns, so that the server? doesn't have issues. I'm sure they can add guild points for bug catching, looting, etc, but it doesn't seem smart from my perspective. Those activities seem better off with their own separate systems.

Here is the discussion for the bug leaderboard possibility
http://www.graalians.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27814

I would love to see incentivized is bug catching. Bug catching can be competitive and fun. A lot of us in the competitive community don't really respect other people's activities, but if "Bugs caught" was a stat on the profile I'm 100% certain we would treat it similarly to bking.

If bug catching shouldn't be rewarded in the NGS than neither should bking... Both of those activities earn you monetary rewards for playing the game, the only difference is one has a profile stat and one does not. Bking is not more competitive than bug catching is, it is probably less competitive to be honest. So what's wrong with giving the bug catchers their points? (I'm not lobbying for removal of BK points at all, but you can't use the money argument against bug catching and turn a blind eye towards it for bking).

Similarities:

1. Limited supply
2. monetary rewards
3. No direct PVP

Believe me, it wouldn't even have a real chance to break the system or anything like that... bug catching is difficult because often bugs can be hard to find or aren't even in season, so it isn't like they would even account for a lot of points, likely.

Bug catching should be rewarded just like our main three stats. The goal of the NGS should be to increase activity across all of Graal, and it seems sensible to extend the branch to a long overlooked part of the game. But if you've got a good counter argument as to why bking deserves it and bug catching doesn't I would like to hear it.  

Baddy killing doesn't count as a money source and it was never designed to be one.

Yes, they sometimes drop a green or blue gralat (and not often) but killing 1000 baddies would net you maybe 200~ gralats max (being generous) whereas 1000 bugs would be way way more because it's actually designed to be used as a money method Baddy killing is not.

There is also no "limited supply" baddy spawns are in large numbers and respawn very often, you could easily land 10,000 baddy kills a day if you did it all day.

The only reward you can count is the bounty daily which makes complete sense as you are defending the kingdom against baddies, this is the same reason it should be counted and a guild should be rewarded for defending the land if people to choose focus on baddy killing.

PvM and PvP are core concepts for any MMO I don't see how anyone could think removing the PvM aspect of an MMO makes sense.

Adding bug catching is just a bad idea it's a money making method and nothing more.  

Colin clearly does not kill baddies.  

A guild is made to grow some kind of community between players that follow the same goal, every possible activity on graal should gain points even if it's farming, looting or bug catching  

Posted by Colin

Baddy killing doesn't count as a money source and it was never designed to be one.

Yes, they sometimes drop a green or blue gralat (and not often) but killing 1000 baddies would net you maybe 200~ gralats max (being generous) whereas 1000 bugs would be way way more because it's actually designed to be used as a money method Baddy killing is not.

There is also no "limited supply" baddy spawns are in large numbers and respawn very often, you could easily land 10,000 baddy kills a day if you did it all day.

The only reward you can count is the bounty daily which makes complete sense as you are defending the kingdom against baddies, this is the same reason it should be counted and a guild should be rewarded for defending the land if people to choose focus on baddy killing.

PvM and PvP are core concepts for any MMO I don't see how anyone could think removing the PvM aspect of an MMO makes sense.

Adding bug catching is just a bad idea it's a money making method and nothing more.

idk bounties seem like a source of money to me  

Spoiler

Posted by Colin

killing 1000 baddies would net you maybe 200~ gralats max (being generous) whereas 1000 bugs would be way way more because it's actually designed to be used as a money method Baddy killing is not.

Posted by 4-Lom

Colin clearly does not kill baddies.

He has less baddy kills than you, and still understands why it wouldn't be fair for ToonsLab to give players guild points for catching bugs
That's up for them to decide, but I wouldn't bother buying gralat packs when you could gain points for your guild, and gain a lot of gralats from only bug catching

I don't know what kind of baddies you've been killing, but from what I've seen 100 bugs > 1000 baddies, maybe even 10,000 baddies as well (daily)
With the limited spawn, I wonder how many bugs you'd even be able to catch when there are more people trying to get points + gralats from it


The only way I'd see bug catching, looting, etc as an alternative is if they only gain a very low amount of points in comparison to spar, pk, bk, gs, tower
If 100 baddy kills gains the guild 10 points, then 100 bugs only gains 1 point, maybe 10, since idk how fast it takes to catch 100

Maybe if you could have the option to trade your bugs for points via npc, instead of gralats. Then you'd have to decide, which one you'd rather have.

It would be cool if you catch a rare bug like a spider, you trade it in with an npc (not the witch from swamp), and you gain a large amount of points for it's rarity.