Posted by Blueh

You pit guilds against one another for competition. Cooperative missions and competitive missions.

would be awesome, but not even sure Classic is mature enough for that
everything that's even remotely competitive on this game gets trashed on

the GST is a conspiracy every time
people who no longer tower just sit on the sidelines and claim superiority over those who actively tower simply because "they never did it for the hat" (whoa, you're such a badass)

neither of those activities really offer any merit of guild accomplishment though, because the GST is composed 95% of just random teams that come together for a week (not long-time guilds), and the whole towering thing is all about recruiting whoever walks by and luring people in with promises of cute hats

I don't think many people on iClassic actually care about being the best or being competitive at something, they just want things handed to them and they want the easiest way imaginable of getting it - for example, is there literally any other explanation as to why iDevice players loved towering on the FB server? Don't try to convince me that it was "fun" or that they were doing it because they had guild pride and wanted to be the best

the most competitive experience I can find on this game are the seasonal events, and that's why I tryhard them every single time, because I know I won't find any other competitive fun in Graal more than a few times per year
the thing is, if Graal announced the egg hunt, for example, as a guild event, no guilds that exist today would participate probably, they'd just break off into random guilds that are specific to the temporary event, then they'd never be back together again

I think the only solution to true guild activities is to force them to exist over an extended period of time
Such as the guilds who reached 10,000 tower hours, those are completely separate from the 1000-hour guilds, they actually have some consistency and substance to them and those are what actual guilds are, at least IMO

still a supporter of time-based restrictions on entering towers for a guild or GSing with a guild and still a supporter of their being a maximum number of guilds that you can join  

Posted by Rufus

Far too vague.

Having various types of missions for both a single guild, or many guilds to participate against one another and having some explicitly for certain categories. For example, a cooperative mission may be something like a last stand where you and your guild hold out against waves and waves of enemies until each member has fallen for as long as possible (this may also be counted for competitive if a leader board is kept). Then you may have a competitive mission, for example, where two guilds must compete to gather a certain amount of 'object' to win, before the other guild (again, leader boards may be kept to see who is most consistent). The idea is not to have these be about money, or any other prizes. But to suit both the people who play for competition and the people who play for leisure, just as an activity for the guild to participate in for fun. However, if done successfully it will create long term benefits for both groups to have fun. As for the possibility for incentives, I would strongly disagree with the idea that gralats or any other reward for playing should be given. To motivate the competive players to continue, a 'Guild Olympics' perhaps can take place annually, and guilds would be responsible for diving their members into teams per challenge (if they choose).  

Guilds could just compete over activities classic already has. There's already a board for tower time and GS score, but there nothing recording the number of player kills, baddy kills, bugs caught, loot found, RPS victories. Not all of these would necessarily work as competitions (For example, RPS wins could be easily boosted). But, a weekly leader board could be added which selects a random goal for the week. It could be as simple as killing the most players in a week or as complicated as specifying which bug to catch. If a small reward of gralats was offered at the end of the week to guild members who participated, certain guilds would probably end up being competitive.

But, this would have the same problem as the GST unless:
1. Members would have to be in the guild for a certain amount of time before stats counted.
2. Guild Membership limited to some number of guilds.
3. Only members who add to the guilds stats get the reward at the end of the week.

I hope Classic steers away from anything PvE oriented, as the AI on Graal is never very fun to play against.  

inb4 someone says 'CTF pls'  

Posted by Thallen

I don't think many people on iClassic actually care about being the best or being competitive at something, they just want things handed to them and they want the easiest way imaginable of getting it - for example, is there literally any other explanation as to why iDevice players loved towering on the FB server? Don't try to convince me that it was "fun" or that they were doing it because they had guild pride and wanted to be the best

Agreed. This is why everyone who makes a "i want free/easier gralats" thread should have hot coal shoved down their throat.

This is also why I despise reward systems. It doesnt promote activity participation with good, clean competition; people would rather just get the reward they want in the quickest, easiest way they can.

To OP: Ok, more guild activities, teamwork, competition, yes yes. But does there really need to be a points system? Besides the point that no one cares about which guild has the best bug catchers and event winners; different guild activites (towers, GS, and these nonexistent missions) are completely incongruent and couldnt possibly be combined into one score as a measure.  

Posted by Cody

The main problem with towering is the people. 2010-early2012 players want a challenge (basically). Late2012-now players want a quick reward. So figure out a way to satisfy both groups. A few ideas...
Allies
Remove allies. This removes subs and makes it to where there is only truly 25 people in a guild(gotta feeling there'll still be subs somehow but oh well) making a guild only have 25 member makes tower more of a challenge since some people aren't on at the same time.
Rewards
Give out rewards every month. Special rewards could be given out every season of a year and a grand prize given out every year. Monthly rewards can be gifted to top 3 guilds with the most hours. Special rewards given to the top 2. And grand rewards given to the top guild. Rewards only given to 25(read previous idea) members. This adds more competition between guilds.(you can keep 1k,5k,10k if you want but I don't see the point in this) Admins might have to change leaderboards for this though.
Reward ideas
Might need to make the rewards different to a couple ideas of mine were reopen some old shops for the winning guilds,(40k room, old nexus, etc.) items(polos, juggling things, etc.), you get the picture. Now you may start the hate on my ideas

Posted by Cody

I mean to restrict a guild to only 25 members. Ways to do this is make a 1 month contract between leader and members. Leaders cannot kick member for 1 month and members cannot leave guild for 1 month. If guild has co leads, the contact can be extended for 3 months, 6 months, etc. of course a player can still have multiple tags.

Restating my earlier ideas from a different thread. Also I like the idea of other guild activities.  

This thread is starting to blend with the guild system thread in the guild area of the forums.

Firstly Having been a part of a couple towering guilds to reach 1k I find towering fairly boring and tend to avoid it these days. Like Thallen says its mostly about putting in the time and not needing any real effort. I do think that there is more competition there than he suggests however. I just cant find much of a reason to join a guild just to sit around a tower and do next to nothing for hours. Thats not why I play graal or any video game. It's way to monotonous ,boring,and time consuming. If you are trying for a hat you have to litteraly do nothing but sit at a tower all day every day or be kicked and never really have any play time to do anything else. Sorry but I would much rather stay out of a towering guild and be able to do what ever I want.

That is way there needs to be more guild activities introduced. Every other mmorpg on the market has multiple things you can do with guilds Yet graal atm has only 2.

I'm starting to think maybe they could at least consider splitting the guild system into two. One being the Casual towering guilds that we have now and one centered around various other activities.

Secondly. I partly agree with Thallen on his ideas on putting time limitations on guild stuff. What I have in mind is some what different tho. I agree they need to limit recruiting and force guild leads to be more choosy with who they recruit and not be able to rec at will. Perhaps they could have a rec cool down period and only give out a set number of guild invites a day or only be able to rec 1-2 days a week. You would still be able to kick there are to many issues and you need to be able to get rid of problem makers within the guild.

I don't agree with Thallens Ideas for time limit restrictions on being able to do stuff when joining guilds. I just don't see how not letting ppl help for like 24 hours would benifit towering?

I would like to see them remove allies as we know it,and just make it so you can only ally with one other guild. However when you are allied it would block you from entering an allies owned tower and allies would be blocked from entering a tower you own. IMO thats how allies should be. Guilds shouldn't be aloud to use allied guilds to rotate players or as additional blockers to spawn in better locations to defend the tower like the lobby of Sardz.

Maybe if they did those things they could go towards more of a seasonal league type system rather than the current 1k recycle system.

I really like Blueh's last stand idea. Maybe they could use it the same but as just boss fights tho?  

Posted by ufoburan

This thread is starting to blend with the guild system thread in the guild area of the forums.

Sorry about that. Umm back to original intentions. Would love to see bluehs ideas in classic. Though in a way kinda feels like we're taking ideas from other games  

Posted by Cody

Sorry about that. Umm back to original intentions. Would love to see bluehs ideas in classic. Though in a way kinda feels like we're taking ideas from other games

Whats wrong with that? Everybody steals everyones ideas thats how the world works. Good luck finding something remotely original. Imo theres nothing wrong with looking at other games for inspraration.  

Posted by ufoburan

Whats wrong with that? Everybody steals everyones ideas thats how the world works. Good luck finding something remotely original.

graal classic is original, our prestigious owner created that from scratch without taking any other games ideas.  

Posted by ufoburan

I don't agree with Thallens Ideas for time limit restrictions on being able to do stuff when joining guilds. I just don't see how not letting ppl help for like 24 hours would benifit towering?

it'd create more guilds in total
it'd force guilds to be closer and slightly smaller
it'd alleviate the problem where people get screwed out of their little hat at 1000 hours
it'd completely kill "noob recruiting"
it'd make it so that holding a tower is no longer as easy as recruiting the most stragglers, but instead who has the stronger and more active guild

I just don't see how it's fun or healthy for towering to be like, "yeah, I'm just gonna instantly recruit every person who walks into this hallway and then we're not going to lose this tower, ever"
how about actually building a guild of loyal and active people who actually have to contribute otherwise lose a spot that is valued highly because it's kept unavailable for 24 hours if you're kicked

if that's how towering always was, then guilds like Mau5trap and Guild B would have hit 1000 hours a long time ago, and Maphasy would probably be dumping on every other guild right now, because they actually operate as a guild, not just a guild tag that they use a vehicle to get themselves to 1000 hours and then never speak again

but no, instead we get to look at the top of the leaderboard: Chain of Memories, Soul of Ninjas
truly untouchable towering forces with the most loyal and skilled members, right
both guilds have their people, but they'd get run into the ground if any sort of loyalty or commitment to the guild was enforced
their bread and butter is spamming that recruit button and it's just boring

"recruit everyone in sight" is not a competitive strategy, or at least it shouldn't be
that's how I put 850 hours into Voxel in 22 days, everyone wanted to join my guild because OMG IT'S PRO so I was allowed to just cycle through members as the day carried on
defending a tower or attacking a tower was never the true challenge, it was always recruiting and rostering

it's like towering isn't even about the actual act of attacking and taking a tower, but instead about being social, likable, and having the most people available at any given time to recruit
boring  

Posted by Thallen

it'd create more guilds in total
it'd force guilds to be closer and slightly smaller
it'd alleviate the problem where people get screwed out of their little hat at 1000 hours
it'd completely kill "noob recruiting"
it'd make it so that holding a tower is no longer as easy as recruiting the most stragglers, but instead who has the stronger and more active guild

I just don't see how it's fun or healthy for towering to be like, "yeah, I'm just gonna instantly recruit every person who walks into this hallway and then we're not going to lose this tower, ever"
how about actually building a guild of loyal and active people who actually have to contribute otherwise lose a spot that is valued highly because it's kept unavailable for 24 hours if you're kicked

if that's how towering always was, then guilds like Mau5trap and Guild B would have hit 1000 hours a long time ago, and Maphasy would probably be dumping on every other guild right now, because they actually operate as a guild, not just a guild tag that they use a vehicle to get themselves to 1000 hours and then never speak again

but no, instead we get to look at the top of the leaderboard: Chain of Memories, Soul of Ninjas
truly untouchable towering forces with the most loyal and skilled members, right
both guilds have their people, but they'd get run into the ground if any sort of loyalty or commitment to the guild was enforced
their bread and butter is spamming that recruit button and it's just boring

"recruit everyone in sight" is not a competitive strategy, or at least it shouldn't be
that's how I put 850 hours into Voxel in 22 days, everyone wanted to join my guild because OMG IT'S PRO so I was allowed to just cycle through members as the day carried on
defending a tower or attacking a tower was never the true challenge, it was always recruiting and rostering

it's like towering isn't even about the actual act of attacking and taking a tower, but instead about being social, likable, and having the most people available at any given time to recruit
boring

I agree with most of what you said,but specailly about putting a stop to spam recruiting is a must needed fix to towering,but I just don't think making ppl wait to be able to do anything for 24 hours is the right way to go. Like I said Imo they should look at using time restrictions or limit the amount of invites a guild gets per 24 hour period. Say you can only get 5 guild invites per day. That would certainly get rid of spam recruiting. It would be similar to college sports where they only get a certain amount of scholorships per year.

They could also give say 5 guild invites per day,but then every hour your guild would get a rec spot back. So there would be some what of a cool down period.

I would still like to see other stuff done as well. Just kind of bland and boring to me sitting around "defending" a tower for hours.  

Posted by Thallen

if that's how towering always was, then guilds like Mau5trap would have hit 1000 hours a long time ago,

o man, if towering were based solely on skill, dat Mau5trap would be the one at 10k and VG stuck dead at 300  

after this GST, been considering towering again and sort of making an example of how broken the current system is

Voxel reached our hours quickly, so I tried having fun with Special Forces and we had a sub-guild (X-Unit) that was only allied to our main tag and was allowed to PK our own subs in Sardon's halls, that was kinda cool and fun and it kept people awake

something I've been considering next is managing over 2 tower guilds at the same time, and if you guys thought "hat chasing" with 1000-hour guilds was an issue before then perhaps you've never considered this sort of idea and how it benefits the guild(s)

one of the main issues with dominating multiple towers on a single tag is the fact that guilds can only hold 25 people at once - with a duo-guild setup you're achieving an effect of 2 guilds whose hours you're pushing that share the same 3 subs, which IMO is more efficient because 4 subs has always been far too much for any single guild

structuring it this way allows you to essentially function as a single guild (since everything is allied together) but double/triple/quadruple tower more effectively simply because you're giving yourself 50 "main" tag spots rather than 25
and then, if one of your guilds ever drops low, you can distribute members amongst it evenly with your other main guild or just pick it up and double with a single guild, etc.

it's practically a way to get the 5000-hour reward, or even better actually (since you get to distribute 2 different hats rather than 1), in only 2000 hours, which you could obviously do if you simply lead one 1000-hour guild after the next, but I think doing it this way makes it much more faster, efficient, and easier
if it works how I think it's capable, it'd basically be 1 guild 24/7 holding Sardon's, 1 guild 24/7 holding Snow, and then a combination of those 2 guilds (through the allied/subs systems) working together to double at other towers on top of that

so, if I have the time and my friends like MeMo, Sugar, Mood would like to give it a shot, it will be a pretty great example as to why certain restrictions that I've suggested could benefit towering
that's not why I'm considering though, I'd like to do it just because it seems unique and creative and challenging and fun  

Thallens idea seems pretty interesting. Post-Gst towering is gonna be challenging.