Does anyone remember the banana-Yellow boomerang scam?( basically people said a banana was a rare item and sold it for 35k and more while it was only worth 15 coins.)  

Posted by peter5498

first, its not possible to get scammed in the trading system, because well if it had gotten checked by both of u approving u should be able to cancel it if someone traded a bar for a cheap crappy gun thats a new thought and u cant get scammed if u have to trade the item no matter what, if u approved it both times it would automatically leave your inventory so dont give crap about scam

Im pretty sure its possible to scam someone with the trading system. You both recive your items. You could still trick someone into trading something rare for lets say an egg grenade that looks like an egg dance. Though if your not that stupid and have experience with the server, I doubt that would be a problem.  

BARs don't appear out of no where so how is everyone going to have a BAR? It's just going to be the same BARs traveling through many graalians,also It's the person who got scammed fault and it would actually lower scam but It seems like it will increase scam because of very expensive items like BAR..But there would actually be less scams because even a noob is smart enough to not give something expensive for something cheap..I'm not saying that no one won't be scammed anymore.  

Posted by Thunderstorm

Lets be honest.
No one is going to trade a BAR for less than 200K.

Someone has to make a profit...

Hmm, I don't want to go into an economics lecture, but you are wrong on both statements.

No rational player would buy a BAR for over 200k, because they could get it at the store at anytime for 200k.

You can't make a profit when no one will buy your gun for more than 200,000.

There will be players who would sell for less than 200k. These players are the ones who don't want the BAR anymore and would rather have/need the cash for a new gun or whatever reason.

The issue around a no trade system in the game is not because we can't develop a trade system, or the GUI for a trade system... it is because the developers don't want a free economy where players can capitalize in certain assets, whether it's gun or money. In an open market, the demand of the guns are determined by the supply of the guns (supply is infinite in our current system). Prices are set by the developers in our current system. If we allowed trading of guns, in the long run the prices of guns would greatly decline way below the shop prices. Which implies no one will buy from the shops, which implies that the money is only circulated between the players.

This is an issue for any game industry. If money circulates only between players, and players are constantly making money via shells/gralat packs, pretty soon we would have TONS of money supply in the economy. There are a few issues associated with this. If players can buy the gun cheaper off another player, they would not buy from the shop. This means the money spent on the gun REMAINS in the economy. In our current system where the player is forced to buy from the shop, the money DISAPPEARS when it is spent on shop items. This results in reducing money supply, thus increasing demand for money. Increased demand for money means players buy gralat packs, which means revenue for game developers.

Basically, less guns being bought from shops = less revenue for game developers. How to prevent that? Not allowing trades. By not allowing trades, players are FORCED to buy their guns from the shops. Again, when they do this, money is taken out of the economy since it just goes to the game server (rather than to another player). When the player wants another gun, he can't simply sell his old gun to gain money and buy another gun, he has to get money buy either working (shells etC), or buying gralat packs.

Why not just limit the supply of guns? ie have a set amount of guns in the economy? You'll run into problems with item hoarding, and the difficulty for new players to obtain new items. Difficulty for new players to compete with the current players, will drive playercount down, which results in a decline of revenue for developers. If you ever have the chance to check out PC Graal Kingdoms, is is a GREAT example in a failed economy. That game's main currency is not even used as the primary currency. It is not a coincidence...over the past decade, PC Era has had numerous server resets (due to inflation) and an uncontrollable economy. Graal Kingdom suffers from an overly inflated economy and item hoarding (nearly impossible for new players to get their hands on decent items, which drives them to stop playing).

I have said it before in the past, and I'll say it again. To prevent scamming without worsening the current economy, there should be a trade system implemented only for items that are currently drop-able (not guns).  

That is exactly what I was trying to push 2 months ago. I got many people to feedback it but no reply :/  

Stefan doesn't want a trading system in place. It'll never happen unless the management have a change of heart.  

Sang someones raging rofl  

Posted by Street

Hmm, I don't want to go into an economics lecture, but you are wrong on both statements.

No rational player would buy a BAR for over 200k, because they could get it at the store at anytime for 200k.

You can't make a profit when no one will buy your gun for more than 200,000.

There will be players who would sell for less than 200k. These players are the ones who don't want the BAR anymore and would rather have/need the cash for a new gun or whatever reason.

The issue around a no trade system in the game is not because we can't develop a trade system, or the GUI for a trade system... it is because the developers don't want a free economy where players can capitalize in certain assets, whether it's gun or money. In an open market, the demand of the guns are determined by the supply of the guns (supply is infinite in our current system). Prices are set by the developers in our current system. If we allowed trading of guns, in the long run the prices of guns would greatly decline way below the shop prices. Which implies no one will buy from the shops, which implies that the money is only circulated between the players.

This is an issue for any game industry. If money circulates only between players, and players are constantly making money via shells/gralat packs, pretty soon we would have TONS of money supply in the economy. There are a few issues associated with this. If players can buy the gun cheaper off another player, they would not buy from the shop. This means the money spent on the gun REMAINS in the economy. In our current system where the player is forced to buy from the shop, the money DISAPPEARS when it is spent on shop items. This results in reducing money supply, thus increasing demand for money. Increased demand for money means players buy gralat packs, which means revenue for game developers.

Basically, less guns being bought from shops = less revenue for game developers. How to prevent that? Not allowing trades. By not allowing trades, players are FORCED to buy their guns from the shops. Again, when they do this, money is taken out of the economy since it just goes to the game server (rather than to another player). When the player wants another gun, he can't simply sell his old gun to gain money and buy another gun, he has to get money buy either working (shells etC), or buying gralat packs.

Why not just limit the supply of guns? ie have a set amount of guns in the economy? You'll run into problems with item hoarding, and the difficulty for new players to obtain new items. Difficulty for new players to compete with the current players, will drive playercount down, which results in a decline of revenue for developers. If you ever have the chance to check out PC Graal Kingdoms, is is a GREAT example in a failed economy. That game's main currency is not even used as the primary currency. It is not a coincidence...over the past decade, PC Era has had numerous server resets (due to inflation) and an uncontrollable economy. Graal Kingdom suffers from an overly inflated economy and item hoarding (nearly impossible for new players to get their hands on decent items, which drives them to stop playing).

I have said it before in the past, and I'll say it again. To prevent scamming without worsening the current economy, there should be a trade system implemented only for items that are currently drop-able (not guns).

Yer i realised that the owner of a BAR will not make a profit because they can just buy it in store
BUT not many people are going to trade BARs are they?  

Posted by Thunderstorm

Yer i realised that the owner of a BAR will not make a profit because they can just buy it in store
BUT not many people are going to trade BARs are they?

Yes they will. Long story short(er). Street is saying saying that players will sell the guns cheaper than the store bought price, and more and more guns will pour into the economy (infinite supply from shops). Eventually the price will go down and people would trade guns within themselves, not buy from the store anymore. Also,if there is a flow of money in the economy, people will want to trade their guns and not buy gralat packs (no money for devs so graal will charge for money by other means). Lastly, if they limit the supply of guns, people may hoard them and make it hard for others,especially new players to get them.  

When I saw that one guy post about "No one will sell a BAR for less than 20k", I decided I was going to give an economics lecture also. Street beat me to it.  

But see that's where you are also wrong. The EC items are still there, these could go for any price you want based on supply and demand. Players will pay more for EC and buy more gralat packs. Plus you do not have to make every item a shop item. Make some extremely rare items from quests and missions. People will be more desperate and pay more money. Come on do you know of any actual big MMOs that have trade and aren't making any money? This would also improve the devs profits as well as it will attract more players. After all there can only be so many guns in circulation before someone has to buy one from the shop. I'm just saying that trade won't necessarily hurt someone. I mean sure all games have merchants but someone has to lose the money. This is probably one of the reasons I'm on and off era for long periods, no real value in items. People are still buying customs and paying for uploads so I don't see many losses in profits due to this. Sure there are a few lucky people who may never have to spend a penny, but there are those who spend 100s to buy certain in game items. I feel like trade is a win win situation, but then again maybe I'm only one who feels this way about a trade system.  

If iEra wanted a trade system snk could just rip it from PC in 10 min or less. Trading guns and hats is a terrible idea FYI, unless you really want me to buy all my gang members a BAR/Shipka ;p  

Posted by Street

Hmm, I don't want to go into an economics lecture, but you are wrong on both statements.

No rational player would buy a BAR for over 200k, because they could get it at the store at anytime for 200k.

You can't make a profit when no one will buy your gun for more than 200,000.

There will be players who would sell for less than 200k. These players are the ones who don't want the BAR anymore and would rather have/need the cash for a new gun or whatever reason.

The issue around a no trade system in the game is not because we can't develop a trade system, or the GUI for a trade system... it is because the developers don't want a free economy where players can capitalize in certain assets, whether it's gun or money. In an open market, the demand of the guns are determined by the supply of the guns (supply is infinite in our current system). Prices are set by the developers in our current system. If we allowed trading of guns, in the long run the prices of guns would greatly decline way below the shop prices. Which implies no one will buy from the shops, which implies that the money is only circulated between the players.

This is an issue for any game industry. If money circulates only between players, and players are constantly making money via shells/gralat packs, pretty soon we would have TONS of money supply in the economy. There are a few issues associated with this. If players can buy the gun cheaper off another player, they would not buy from the shop. This means the money spent on the gun REMAINS in the economy. In our current system where the player is forced to buy from the shop, the money DISAPPEARS when it is spent on shop items. This results in reducing money supply, thus increasing demand for money. Increased demand for money means players buy gralat packs, which means revenue for game developers.

Basically, less guns being bought from shops = less revenue for game developers. How to prevent that? Not allowing trades. By not allowing trades, players are FORCED to buy their guns from the shops. Again, when they do this, money is taken out of the economy since it just goes to the game server (rather than to another player). When the player wants another gun, he can't simply sell his old gun to gain money and buy another gun, he has to get money buy either working (shells etC), or buying gralat packs.

Why not just limit the supply of guns? ie have a set amount of guns in the economy? You'll run into problems with item hoarding, and the difficulty for new players to obtain new items. Difficulty for new players to compete with the current players, will drive playercount down, which results in a decline of revenue for developers. If you ever have the chance to check out PC Graal Kingdoms, is is a GREAT example in a failed economy. That game's main currency is not even used as the primary currency. It is not a coincidence...over the past decade, PC Era has had numerous server resets (due to inflation) and an uncontrollable economy. Graal Kingdom suffers from an overly inflated economy and item hoarding (nearly impossible for new players to get their hands on decent items, which drives them to stop playing).

I have said it before in the past, and I'll say it again. To prevent scamming without worsening the current economy, there should be a trade system implemented only for items that are currently drop-able (not guns).

Maybe there could be some sort of trading pass that you can buy from the in app purchases store each month. This way you would still keep money coming in and players could have a free economy.  

I've read all you people had to say. Good points, and Street: Thanks for explaining. I agree with Street. Trading items that actually cost "real" money, or urge people to spend money, is bad. I agree with a trade system for droppable items. It makes sense. Shells are the real in game currency anyway. However, I still think that we should be able to sell our guns back to the shops for a minimum price... Or sell them for a gun voucher. How about you trade your gun for a "good for 15k gralats" voucher that is untradable, that you can only spend on guns? Anyway... Those are my thoughts.  

What we need is three furniture items

Gun Safe: to store previously bought guns to make room in a cluttered invintory

Sword Rack: same thing as gun rack except for melee items

Wardrobe: Serves as character slots but has 25 > baddabam!